I know Xidas are king, but what if you just want a slight improvement over stock?
TLDR: I dont need the best or even almost the best. I just want a 1" drop with the same or better comfort and handling as stock
I've been doing my research for a while and read through a ton of threads on here, the "other" forum and the subreddit. Its clear this forum is more knowledgeable. My 1997 NA8 is currently stock. Its a street/canyon car on daily driver duty and is in need of new shocks. This is what I have gathered thus far. You can skip this bullet list. People here understandably dont take kindly to those who havent done research, so I'd just like to prove I have put in the time:
You'd think knowing all that I'd be able to decide for myself, but I dont take my car to circuit tracks. Its a fun weekend canyon car that serves as a daily. I really just want something that is at least as comfortable as stock, maybe slightly less, but a handling improvement over stock with a 1" drop. Doesnt have to be a huge improvement. I really just need to replace the shocks. I actually liked the stock suspension, but I dont want to buy anything used and the aftermarket OEM-like replacements allegedly suck. Xidas of course are the answer, I can even afford them, but the truth is I just dont want to put $2,2000 suspension on a $4000 car. I know I can resell them for most of their value, I know they're the best, but I just dont need the best. I'm not competing like a lot of you guys are, and I'm not doing track days. I'd probably use them to 40% of their potential, I already have a money-pit track car that isnt my miata, and to be honest I think the dollar:fun ratio of $2,200 could be better spent on other things in my specific situation. I really appreciate any insight you guys have. |
Penske (the real gold standard)>xida triple>feal 442>xida race (the affordable premium)>feal 441>diy bilstein (the one you want)
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Originally Posted by matrussell122
(Post 1568357)
Penske (the real gold standard)>xida triple>feal 442>xida race (the affordable premium)>feal 441>diy bilstein (the one you want)
Theres all of these: "Feal Suspension 441+ Road Race Monotube Coilovers" for $1749 "Feal Suspension 441 Monotube Coilovers" for $1285 "Goodwin Racing Spec Feal Suspension 441 Road Race Coilovers" for $1299 I think the $1285 set are the ones I want. Near my budget and claim to be ideal for street use, but googling didnt return anyone on this forum talking about that version specifically. I read through that Bilstein thread and pretty much everyone who uses them says they're good on the track, but very uncomfortable for daily use, and honestly I dont think I want to scour the internet for used bilsteins, source various parts from a ton of places, and put forth the effort. I'd rather just spend more money. Time is what I'm lacking most these days. |
It's all in setup. Bilstein can be great on the street. They do 90% of what the xida will do for far less money. If I was you I'd go that path until either xida race or 442s
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What tires are you using or plan to use? Are sure you want a full 1" drop? That would be 6" pinch weld to 5". What other suspension mods are you planning? What are you comfortable spending?
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Originally Posted by LeoNA
(Post 1568374)
What tires are you using or plan to use? Are sure you want a full 1" drop? That would be 6" pinch weld to 5". What other suspension mods are you planning? What are you comfortable spending?
Here is a photo of the car: https://i.imgur.com/lqqNBFO.jpg Obviously I'd like to spend the minimum to get what I'm looking for (Improved handling, but as close to stock road comfort as possible), but at the high end I'd like to keep it around $1000. I think $1300 is my hard line. I'm only choosing to go aftermarket because my stock shocks are gone and the aftermarket OEM-like shocks are all crap. My miata isnt my weekend/track/fun-only car. I have a car for that, so I just want to improve it a bit while keeping it as livable as possible. As bad as they apparently are, I almost wonder if Teins would be fine for me since so many people who "dont know any better" like them. I've had high end coilovers on other cars, but never the miata, so maybe I dont know any better either. |
Don't see Fox on your list. I'm really happy with my Fox.
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Originally Posted by vitamin j
(Post 1568377)
Don't see Fox on your list. I'm really happy with my Fox.
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I don't really see where you said what your budget is. But, assuming the budget is performance per dollar then I would favor the bilstein setup. It would depend on how much performance you want with the tradeoff in comfort. The quick cheap comfy setup for the bilsteins is to run maruha top hats, the b6 or b8 nb shocks, integra 14mm bumpstops cut down to about 40mm, and 350 / 200 inlb springs in 6 inch length and 2.5 inch diameter. If you want more performance and a bit less comfort (but still comfy) 550/350 springs are good to run and about the max those shocks can do when stock.
Should you want to go wild down the road a few years from now you can have Whitener revalve the bilsteins to best suit your needs and make a spring combo recommendation then. |
Feal street, MeisterR ZetaCRD or MeisterR Sportive. The Feal with a RB (24mm) 15/16 front bar is the best setup in your price range. After that I would go with the Xida Race with 1/4" spacers above the top mount. The ideal ride height would be 5"- 5 3/8".
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Honestly, I think the Penske's are really going to shake things up. You can buy a set of completely assembled Penske's with eibach springs for ~$1,600 here: https://www.advanced-autosports.com/...31211469242411. It'd be hard to imagine much better value than that.
That being said, I've had the Xidas (800/500 springs), I have FEAL's 441+ (7K/7K) on my current BRZ, and my brother has the DIY Bilsteins (500/350) on his Miata. I have significant seat time on all three setups on track. The 441's are a really good budget minded coilover - make no mistake, these are not in the same league as true motorsport grade coilovers like Xidas, MSC etc. They are nice though in that you can buy custom spring rates directly from FEAL and they have many different valving options that you can request (worth noting they actually use linear valving as opposed to digressive/dual digressive shock valving that you usually see). Also they seem to have a bit better shock travel over some other options like BC, Fortune etc. In my eyes, this is the Miata coilover tier list: Xidas/MCS/JRZ/Penske > Penske SM kit > Ohlins > FEAL 442 > FEAL 441+ > DIY Billies > Tein Flex > literal garbage > V-maxx/BC's |
Originally Posted by Goingnowherefast
(Post 1568399)
Honestly, I think the Penske's are really going to shake things up. You can buy a set of completely assembled Penske's with eibach springs for ~$1,600 here: https://www.advanced-autosports.com/...31211469242411. It'd be hard to imagine much better value than that.
That being said, I've had the Xidas (800/500 springs), I have FEAL's 441+ (7K/7K) on my current BRZ, and my brother has the DIY Bilsteins (500/350) on his Miata. I have significant seat time on all three setups on track. The 441's are a really good budget minded coilover - make no mistake, these are not in the same league as true motorsport grade coilovers like Xidas, MSC etc. They are nice though in that you can buy custom spring rates directly from FEAL and they have many different valving options that you can request (worth noting they actually use linear valving as opposed to digressive/dual digressive shock valving that you usually see). Also they seem to have a bit better shock travel over some other options like BC, Fortune etc. In my eyes, this is the Miata coilover tier list: Xidas/MCS/JRZ > Penske SM kit > Ohlins > FEAL 442 > FEAL 441+ > DIY Billies > Tein Flex > literal garbage > V-maxx/BC's https://performanceshock.com/index.p...oducts_id=1219 |
Originally Posted by matrussell122
(Post 1568401)
Wrong Penske. These are the king penske not what you linked. .
https://performanceshock.com/index.p...oducts_id=1219 |
We all have a point, but our recommendations all come in at different price points. What does OP want to spend? He stated that he didn't want to drop $2,200 on a $4k car. Are we talking about a budget of $600, $1,200, $1,600.....
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Enjoyed reading the summaries of what you've learned :laugh:
For what you're doing, why not Xida GS? Still the awesome ride/handling balance you're looking for, $1879. That'll get you an inch lower than stock without a problem too. Outside of that, still the billies. I think there was someone around here selling pre-assembled bilstein kits, was it you @Bronson M ? |
Broke bitch Burger King burger flipper happy meal: Budget bilsteins with 550/350 springs or 450/300 springs.
Home Depot assistant paint department manager flexin': Goodwin Feal 441s I'm a real boy now and i don't need to have unique brain function slapping meat on table: Xidas in a flavor of your choice |
Originally Posted by MindfulMoose
(Post 1568378)
The only fox option I know of is the FM Fox setup. I didnt put it on the list because its $2349, and at that price I'd just go with the tried-and-true Xidas. I hear more people using them and praising them than the Fox setup.
I wanted 99% of that performance, but a large majority of my driving is on the street (and honestly some roads around would be suitable test the Mars2020 rover on) AND I couldn't afford to drop $2000 on a suspension only for that street driving to necessitate a $800+ rebuild or re-seal of the shocks in a ~years (or twos) time. I think the jury is really still out on how much those neoprene(?) shock condoms improve MTBF for the Xidas, but if you search around you'll see a lot of people needing them rebuilt with only mixed street driving thrown in -- which is par for the course for a race shock, but too expensive for my usage. What I do know is that I've never ridden in a Miata more comfortable and composed over some horrendously rough roads than the Fox (and I'm talking if you go above 20 you will literally be bounced out of your seat kinda bumpy), and, more importantly for me, I also have some sense of the sheer amount of R&D time and money Fox invests into their coatings, o-ring, and dust seal technologies, as they certainly aren't putting shock condoms on their off-road products, and yet they still survive. I'm in no way trying to harp on Tractive here, obviously they're excellent suspension designers and make a wicked fast product, but they simply can't compete with the resources of a publicly traded company that's been building shocks since 1978. Also of high importance to me, I've had nothing but exceedingly excellent customer services experiences with FM at every turn, and I certainly can't say the same for a few other companies in this sector. Anyway, just my 2 cents. DIY Billies are probably your best bet if you don't find them too harsh. |
Well, Tractive is not exactly new as well... If you live in Europe, I would also give Meisterr a chance. Not Xida good by any means (not even remotely) but not bad for a sub-800 euro setup too.
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Originally Posted by HarryB
(Post 1568440)
Well, Tractive is not exactly new as well... If you live in Europe, I would also give Meisterr a chance. Not Xida good by any means (not even remotely) but not bad for a sub-800 euro setup too.
But Fox has a $1.67 Billion market cap and brought in $180M in revenue last quarter. When it comes to reliability testing and R&D, no amount of ingenuity is going to fully compete with resources like that. |
I'm not sure i'd be presenting "doesn't need rebuilds!" as a point for Fox. They're a performance/racing shock. They will need rebuilds more often than the Bilstein-sport stuff otherwise referenced. There's big business around rebuilding Fox/King/Icon/Radflo shocks.
Just because people DON'T rebuild them on Miatas as often as Tractive-based stuff so far with a very limited sample size doesn't mean they SHOULDN'T. |
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