MindfulMoose

TLDR: I dont need the best or even almost the best. I just want a 1" drop with the same or better comfort and handling as stock
I've been doing my research for a while and read through a ton of threads on here, the "other" forum and the subreddit. Its clear this forum is more knowledgeable. My 1997 NA8 is currently stock. Its a street/canyon car on daily driver duty and is in need of new shocks.

This is what I have gathered thus far. You can skip this bullet list. People here understandably dont take kindly to those who havent done research, so I'd just like to prove I have put in the time:

• Xidas - These are supposedly the holy grail, but are very expensive. Most people say they're worth it because they ride well on roads and handle well on the track.
• FCM - Nearly as good or equal to Xidas, but you have to jump through hoops and pay a fee for the privilege of spending even more money on them (I think?). "Just buy Xidas"
• Feal 441 - Theres like 3 different versions. Sounds like its a bit below Xida and FCM, but a good value. "Why not save and just buy Xidas?"
• Rebuilt bilsteins from that 9000 page thread - Best bang for your buck if you actually like the end result. From reading the thread it sounds a bit finnicky to get it right, source the bilsteins, and in most cases they're good on the track but harsh on the road. Doesnt sound like its for me unless I somehow missed something, but I dont think I did.
• FM V-maxx - These are garbage and I think they're rebranded racelands. Apparently the only reason people ever like these is that they havent had a real setup
• Meisterr - Basically the same as FM v-maxx, just with annoying forum marketing.
• Koni Yellows - Were great back in the day when there werent a ton of options, not so good these days even for the price
• Tokico Illumina - People say they're a good value, but you cant get them anymore so it doesnt matter
• Tein Flex - Not particularly good, better to save the money and get a better setup, but apparently a good value for what it is.
• Raceland - Lol

You'd think knowing all that I'd be able to decide for myself, but I dont take my car to circuit tracks. Its a fun weekend canyon car that serves as a daily. I really just want something that is at least as comfortable as stock, maybe slightly less, but a handling improvement over stock with a 1" drop. Doesnt have to be a huge improvement. I really just need to replace the shocks. I actually liked the stock suspension, but I dont want to buy anything used and the aftermarket OEM-like replacements allegedly suck. Xidas of course are the answer, I can even afford them, but the truth is I just dont want to put $2,2000 suspension on a $4000 car. I know I can resell them for most of their value, I know they're the best, but I just dont need the best. I'm not competing like a lot of you guys are, and I'm not doing track days. I'd probably use them to 40% of their potential, I already have a money-pit track car that isnt my miata, and to be honest I think the dollar:fun ratio of $2,200 could be better spent on other things in my specific situation.

I really appreciate any insight you guys have.

matrussell122

iTrader: (1)

Penske (the real gold standard)>xida triple>feal 442>xida race (the affordable premium)>feal 441>diy bilstein (the one you want)

MindfulMoose

I'm actually leaning toward the Feals. I'm just not sure which version of the 441 is the one people like.
Theres all of these:
"Feal Suspension 441+ Road Race Monotube Coilovers" for $1749
"Feal Suspension 441 Monotube Coilovers" for $1285
"Goodwin Racing Spec Feal Suspension 441 Road Race Coilovers" for $1299

I think the $1285 set are the ones I want. Near my budget and claim to be ideal for street use, but googling didnt return anyone on this forum talking about that version specifically.


I read through that Bilstein thread and pretty much everyone who uses them says they're good on the track, but very uncomfortable for daily use, and honestly I dont think I want to scour the internet for used bilsteins, source various parts from a ton of places, and put forth the effort. I'd rather just spend more money. Time is what I'm lacking most these days.

matrussell122

iTrader: (1)

It's all in setup. Bilstein can be great on the street. They do 90% of what the xida will do for far less money. If I was you I'd go that path until either xida race or 442s

LeoNA

What tires are you using or plan to use? Are sure you want a full 1" drop? That would be 6" pinch weld to 5". What other suspension mods are you planning? What are you comfortable spending?

MindfulMoose

I just fitted the car with 15x8 wheels on 205/50/15 continental extremecontact sport tires. I'm just eyeballing it. Maybe 1" is too much. It just looks like a 4x4 at the moment. Not going for any particular look, I just want it to look like the wheels fit. So maybe half an inch. I really dont know the exact drop I want. Currently no plans to turbo, but I'm trying to set up the car so if that changes in the future I wont have to go sell and re-buy a bunch of crap. Hence the 15x8 wheels.
Here is a photo of the car: https://i.imgur.com/lqqNBFO.jpg

Obviously I'd like to spend the minimum to get what I'm looking for (Improved handling, but as close to stock road comfort as possible), but at the high end I'd like to keep it around $1000. I think $1300 is my hard line. I'm only choosing to go aftermarket because my stock shocks are gone and the aftermarket OEM-like shocks are all crap. My miata isnt my weekend/track/fun-only car. I have a car for that, so I just want to improve it a bit while keeping it as livable as possible. As bad as they apparently are, I almost wonder if Teins would be fine for me since so many people who "dont know any better" like them. I've had high end coilovers on other cars, but never the miata, so maybe I dont know any better either.

vitamin j

iTrader: (5)

Don't see Fox on your list. I'm really happy with my Fox.

MindfulMoose

The only fox option I know of is the FM Fox setup. I didnt put it on the list because its $2349, and at that price I'd just go with the tried-and-true Xidas. I hear more people using them and praising them than the Fox setup.

andym

I don't really see where you said what your budget is. But, assuming the budget is performance per dollar then I would favor the bilstein setup. It would depend on how much performance you want with the tradeoff in comfort. The quick cheap comfy setup for the bilsteins is to run maruha top hats, the b6 or b8 nb shocks, integra 14mm bumpstops cut down to about 40mm, and 350 / 200 inlb springs in 6 inch length and 2.5 inch diameter. If you want more performance and a bit less comfort (but still comfy) 550/350 springs are good to run and about the max those shocks can do when stock.

Should you want to go wild down the road a few years from now you can have Whitener revalve the bilsteins to best suit your needs and make a spring combo recommendation then.

LeoNA

Feal street, MeisterR ZetaCRD or MeisterR Sportive. The Feal with a RB (24mm) 15/16 front bar is the best setup in your price range. After that I would go with the Xida Race with 1/4" spacers above the top mount. The ideal ride height would be 5"- 5 3/8".

Goingnowherefast

iTrader: (1)

Honestly, I think the Penske's are really going to shake things up. You can buy a set of completely assembled Penske's with eibach springs for ~$1,600 here: https://www.advanced-autosports.com/...31211469242411. It'd be hard to imagine much better value than that.

That being said, I've had the Xidas (800/500 springs), I have FEAL's 441+ (7K/7K) on my current BRZ, and my brother has the DIY Bilsteins (500/350) on his Miata. I have significant seat time on all three setups on track. The 441's are a really good budget minded coilover - make no mistake, these are not in the same league as true motorsport grade coilovers like Xidas, MSC etc. They are nice though in that you can buy custom spring rates directly from FEAL and they have many different valving options that you can request (worth noting they actually use linear valving as opposed to digressive/dual digressive shock valving that you usually see). Also they seem to have a bit better shock travel over some other options like BC, Fortune etc.

In my eyes, this is the Miata coilover tier list:

Xidas/MCS/JRZ/Penske > Penske SM kit > Ohlins > FEAL 442 > FEAL 441+ > DIY Billies > Tein Flex > literal garbage > V-maxx/BC's

matrussell122

iTrader: (1)

Wrong Penske. These are the king penske not what you linked. .

https://performanceshock.com/index.p...oducts_id=1219

Goingnowherefast

iTrader: (1)

No, I'm specifically talking about the new Penske SM kit that I linked. Obviously those Penske's are in the top tier with the other motorsport grade systems like Xidas, MCS, JRZ etc.

andym

We all have a point, but our recommendations all come in at different price points. What does OP want to spend? He stated that he didn't want to drop $2,200 on a $4k car. Are we talking about a budget of $600, $1,200, $1,600.....

turbofan

iTrader: (1)

Enjoyed reading the summaries of what you've learned

For what you're doing, why not Xida GS? Still the awesome ride/handling balance you're looking for, $1879. That'll get you an inch lower than stock without a problem too.

Outside of that, still the billies. I think there was someone around here selling pre-assembled bilstein kits, was it you @Bronson M ?

concealer404

iTrader: (3)

Broke bitch Burger King burger flipper happy meal: Budget bilsteins with 550/350 springs or 450/300 springs.
Home Depot assistant paint department manager flexin': Goodwin Feal 441s
I'm a real boy now and i don't need to have unique brain function slapping meat on table: Xidas in a flavor of your choice

Spaceman Spiff

Just chiming in to say the same thing as VitaminJ about how much I absolutely love my FM Fox setup. Obviously not the MT.net drink-the-kool-aid-jim option, but just because there aren't as many testimonials doesn't mean that they don't have a lot of merits compared to the Xidas. In a flat out, no driver-mod required sense it's my understanding the Xidas will always eek out that extra 0.1s compared to anything but the ~$1xxxx 2x/3x adjustable custom race shocks, but that's not why I purchased my suspension.

I wanted 99% of that performance, but a large majority of my driving is on the street (and honestly some roads around would be suitable test the Mars2020 rover on) AND I couldn't afford to drop $2000 on a suspension only for that street driving to necessitate a $800+ rebuild or re-seal of the shocks in a ~years (or twos) time. I think the jury is really still out on how much those neoprene(?) shock condoms improve MTBF for the Xidas, but if you search around you'll see a lot of people needing them rebuilt with only mixed street driving thrown in -- which is par for the course for a race shock, but too expensive for my usage.

What I do know is that I've never ridden in a Miata more comfortable and composed over some horrendously rough roads than the Fox (and I'm talking if you go above 20 you will literally be bounced out of your seat kinda bumpy), and, more importantly for me, I also have some sense of the sheer amount of R&D time and money Fox invests into their coatings, o-ring, and dust seal technologies, as they certainly aren't putting shock condoms on their off-road products, and yet they still survive. I'm in no way trying to harp on Tractive here, obviously they're excellent suspension designers and make a wicked fast product, but they simply can't compete with the resources of a publicly traded company that's been building shocks since 1978. Also of high importance to me, I've had nothing but exceedingly excellent customer services experiences with FM at every turn, and I certainly can't say the same for a few other companies in this sector.

Anyway, just my 2 cents. DIY Billies are probably your best bet if you don't find them too harsh.

HarryB

Well, Tractive is not exactly new as well... If you live in Europe, I would also give Meisterr a chance. Not Xida good by any means (not even remotely) but not bad for a sub-800 euro setup too.

Spaceman Spiff

You're absolutley right I could've been more clear. Like I said Tractive obviously makes great products, and from what I remember reading a bunch of WP suspension engineers left after KTM bought them and founded Tractive. There's a reason all the fast people love the Xidas...

But Fox has a $1.67 Billion market cap and brought in $180M in revenue last quarter. When it comes to reliability testing and R&D, no amount of ingenuity is going to fully compete with resources like that.

concealer404

iTrader: (3)

I'm not sure i'd be presenting "doesn't need rebuilds!" as a point for Fox. They're a performance/racing shock. They will need rebuilds more often than the Bilstein-sport stuff otherwise referenced. There's big business around rebuilding Fox/King/Icon/Radflo shocks.

Just because people DON'T rebuild them on Miatas as often as Tractive-based stuff so far with a very limited sample size doesn't mean they SHOULDN'T.