2004, 5-speed. 133,000 miles. Difficult to shift from 1st to 2nd, especially at low speed when cold.
Street use only.

All the 6-speed folks swear by Ford / Motocraft XT-M5-QS, as it contains a proprietary blend of unicorn tears and pixie dust which the syncro bushings apparently like. Is the prevailing opinion also that this is the sweet hotness for the 5 speeds, or does Amsoil have some even awesomer flavor-of-the-month?

Amsoil will shift like crap until hot, and then it'll shift like unicorn man-butter/gentleman's gravy.

Redline worked ok for most track guys until it gets super hot, then it starts shifting like crap, hence the switch to Amsoil for most track guys.

I know you're not tracking, but that's my expertise on the subject. I'll be doing the Ford/Motocraft when the time comes.

Really? In the 5-speed? I have bottles of Amsoil 75w90 GL-4 set aside for my 1994 5-speed, I thought it was fine.

both amsoil and motorcraft shift about the same for me - and no matter what the stupid 6sp is really notchy and finicky when cold, and then really smooth when warmed up.

I've never had a non-smooth 5sp, all shifted like butter. I'd use amsoil again, esp in a 5sp

I've used redline, amsoil and, the autozone special lucas stuff, plus obviously whatever is in it from the factory.

All shifted the same. In both my 94 and 01 5 speeds.

Never tried amsoil but had really good results with the motorcraft oil in my 5spd. Really did smooth out the 1-2 shift in my trans.

Second 5 speed was full of Redline Shockproof (blue smurf juice) when we pulled it out of the donor, and it shifted just fine. I ran it with Amsoil MTG 75w90 GL4 and it was great hot & cold (keep in mind I live in CA, so our "hots" and "colds" may be on different scales.)

Current 6 speed is also running Amsoil MTG 75w90 GL4. Shifting is glorious both hot and cold.

FWIW I'm convinced Mobil1 GL5 is responsible for the premature death of my 1st 5 speed.

Ford Unicorn Tears made my already-happy 5-speed happier. I think, though, that an even bigger difference came from filling up the nearly-empty turret while replacing my torn boots when I changed the fluid at 65k miles. If you haven't already, take a look at what's going on in there. It's probably best to have the boots handy already, because chances are they'll be torn.

it's also probably a good idea to replace the bottom shifter bushing with one from 5X or something.

if yours is worn, it could be mis-aligning and causing the notchiness/etc

I thought it was always the 5 speed people who went motorcrap or death, and the 6 speed people fought between a bunch of them with no clear winner. Put the ford motorcrap stuff in.

nope. a couple years ago the Motorcraft stuff was the beez kneez with us 6sp folks. See my thread about it.

I've never quite understood what people mean when they describe shifting as "notchy." Personally, I find that having a discernible tactile delineation between "in gear" and "not in gear" to be a desirable attribute in a shifter

In my case, the transmission simply doesn't like to go into 2'nd gear at all when cold unless I rev-match it. No drama, no grinding, it just won't drop into that gear under certain conditions.


That's what I was looking for. Someone with the exact same problem as me, who solved it by using a certain lubricant.

Oh, they are, no question about that. I simply assume them to be routine maintenance on any newly-acquired Miata.

I did forget about the fact that the turret needs to be separately lubed on the later gearboxes- thanks for that.

This x10. Do not underestimate the power of a simple shifter rebuild.

I know Rosenthal has a super convenient kit where you can get all the OEM bushings in one place so you don't have to hunt things down.

My experience was quite different. The first fluid change I did on my first 5 speed @ 95k smelled like the factory fill. On the advice of m.net I loaded it up with the Motorcraft stuff and it became notchy and retarded where as before it was fine. Then I got stupid and loaded it up with Mobil1 and the rest is history. Again, I'm just one datapoint.

With the price of the Motorcraft vs Amsoil, I'll just keep buying the Amsoil.

Joe, turret is seperately lubed on all 5 speeds, not just the later ones. Also dont forget a new shifter tip when you do the boots that can also cause a hard to get into gear problem.

There's a difference between a satisfying click, and a rough, almost grind-ey (but not actually grinding) clunk. It doesn't feel good, it doesn't sound good, and I'm guessing its just not good. There's also the "hard to get into the gear" notchi-ness, which is more like extreme tightness when pushing the lever into gear. More than desireable.

Hope that makes sense. In my case, I experience both when cold, though if I am super careful and don't just jam it, it goes in and doens't acually grind or anything. When it warms up, all is perfect-o and feels great, as described by \/

A perfect "shift feel", at least for me, is when you feel a discernible engagement, but its buttery smooth and not too hard to push, and just slides in.

Think of last night :party:

So its like, Mosin Nagant 91/30 as opposed to Lee Enfield No1 MKIII? :giggle:

I also had massive improvement from stock lube to Motorcraft when cold. Now shifts the same at all temps. Yeah, it's expensive, but it's not like you use gallons of it.

I have a theory that trannies vary from the factory (clearances?) and that some lubes work better on some trannies, and other lubes work better on other trannies. I suppose it's a matter of trying what seems to work best for most, to the 2nd most recommended, to the 3rd....

probably right on all counts
5 or 6?

5 speed. I think that is what Joe has, but I could have made it plain.

Does the 5x bushing make a difference? Reviews seemed bad for the first generation bushing.

My 5 speed was grinding when quickly going into 3rd both upshifting and downshifting. I tried shockproof in it upon recommendation from someone (I would give credit but I don't recall) and it solved the problem immediately.

Cold? What's that?

I'm in Texas where it is like 150F on the track surface and my Redline filled transmission (MT-85) seems to shift just fine. How hot does it have to get before it starts shifting like crap?

Stock power levels, though, but I'm not exactly pussyfooting it around.

robert

Absolutely agree that you should be able to tell by feel if the shifter is in a gear or not, and that you should feel resistance moving out of and into gear.

The notchiness ... the shift isn't quite right. It starts to snick into gear, then it's as if it starts to grind, the synchro finally synchros, and then it goes into gear. So there's just a catch, or notch, a momentary about-to-grind hesitation when going into gear. Often audible as well as being felt through the shifter. It's an interruption to the snick into gear.

I use Motorcraft and change it once a season. It has made my 6 speed shift better than when I got it, but it's still not perfect. At this point in the cars' life it sees about equal track to street miles. I have driven the car in below freezing temps and had no shifting issues - it might have been a bit stiffer, but still felt fine. (That's what she said)

One of the things that I most despised about my '00 Integra (and, to be fair, there weren't many), was the shifter. Even compared to my old VW Beetle it felt amazingly vague, like someone had stuck a dildo into a bucket full of oatmeal, with a few pieces of string connecting it to the syncro forks. You couldn't really tell when it was in gear other than by the fact that you'd hit the stop at the end of the gate.

Mitsubishi Diaqueen for the Evo8/9 MR 6 speed trans transformed my '92 5spd from a notchy, stiff disappointment to a smooth-at-any-temp delight. Once I swap in my 6spd I'll be using it again.

I prefer Motul 75-90 over the FoMoCo stuff. It shifts nicer.

Still waiting to loosen the drain plus and replace the FoMoCo stuff with Amsoil... I still fear stripping the plug, so the FoMoCo stuff stays.

But, seriously, the Motul works way better on the other Miata with 50% more miles and a beat up 2nd gear syncro.

have you ever seen how a FWD shifter is connected to the trans?

In the case of the aforementioned '00 Integra, it was connected to the transmission via a metal rod with a U-joint at either end, along with a bar similar to the PPF which anchored the shifter base to the transmission near the point at which the selector rod entered it. It was very much like the shifter arrangement on a Beetle / 911, where the bar rotated as the shifter was moved left to right, and slid fore-aft to convey the same motion at the shifter.

Other FWD cars (Toyotas in particular), use two braided metal cables, one which relays the fore-aft motion of the shifter and another which relays the side-to-side motion.

The oatmealness of the Acura's shifter seemed much less to do with any vagueness in the coupling between the shifter and the transmission, and more in that there seemed to be no perceptible gating, and the act of engaging or disengaging a gear was not accompanied by any significant tactile feedback.

Based on his description I thin he has.

yeah, cause it seemed pretty accurate.

I've said in several of these threads that the DSM guys use BG Synchroshift, and it really is magical. It will turn a recalcitrant piece of junk into a useful transimission.

We've found that the only good fluid to use in DSM trannies is the Diaqueen I mentioned above, or Redline MT90 if the former is not available. We actually void warranties on our builds if any other fluid is used because of accelerated wear issues.

This DSM info of course has no bearing on whether BG will work well in a Miata trans, but given that both their synchros are unlined bronze the contact will be similar in both, and thus their behavior in a given fluid will as well.

I've never used Diaqueen, except in EVOs that require it. I HAVE used BG in several DSMs, and like I said, it turned unshiftable junk into good transmissions.

Diaqueen smells like a rotting corpse, so it's probably good stuff.

I'll keep that in mind if anyone on DSMTurbo.net ever asks me which transmission lubricant does a good job of un-sticking the 1-2 shift on a DSM.

Well, it does seem only appropriate for this forum that a product called "Diaqueen" would make a good tranny lube.

I use the Diaqueen in my daily driver, which is a turbocharged 99 galant with an eclipse 5spd trans. I have tried running all sorts of fluid in it, from straight Redline, to Diaqueen, and also the Scot Grey mix which is : 2x Redline MTL SAE 70w-80 API GL-4 Gear Oil
1x BG SyncroShift Part# 790 since my trans takes 3 quarts of fluid. The Diaqueen is by far the best solution so far with the second choice being the Grey mix.

Ill be performing a 6spd swap into Lazarus soon and Im wondering if I should just run the Diaqueen in that as well since I already have a copious quantity and dont want to deal with the a holes at the ford dealer. Based on the discussion in this thread it seems like the synchros in the transmissions are similar which means it should work quite nicely. I will report back soon with results.

Ive been running Redline in my now dead 5 spd, and when it was cool/warm it was great, but after 10 minutes into a track session the tranny would become a tad notchy which I can assume stemmed from the overheating of the redline fluid. It became worse and worse the more days I did on the same trans fluid. On the other hand the diaqueen in my galant gets changed once a year despite many miles of daily driving and a decent amount of track abuse, and I would say that it shifts better than just about any miata 5/6spd Ive ever driven.

To expound on my previous, here's a diagram of the shifting linkage on an Integra, which I believe is common to all B-series Hondas:

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...1&d=1409244463

#12 is the shift linkage itself. #13 is the PPF-like device which anchors to the transmission case at #15, and contains the socket into which the shifter ball sits at the rear. Thus, the spatial relationship between the shifter and transmission is rigidly enforced.

Here's what it looks like IRL, on the transmission side:

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1409245061


And beneath the shifter:

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1409245061





For comparison, here's a diagram of a cable-type shifter:

http://repairguide.autozone.com/znet...5280064bc8.gif


And now you know what a FWD shift linkage looks like. :D

This. Glad to see there's another heretic here.

My Quaife 5-speed came filled with Shockproof, which was okay. I switched it out for Mobil 1 GL5 and have been happy with the results. Shifts are smooth, cold or hot, and it seems to stand up to quite a bit of abuse.

An update:

Motocraft XT-M5-QS is friggin awesome. Now I understand why they charge $25 a bottle for it- this stuff has to be at least 50% unicorn milk by volume.

Upon draining the transmission, a shocking amount of metal came out of it. Aside from the usual metal dust, there were a couple of pieces of what appeared to be spring steel, the longest of which was about 1cm, which I surmise must be the remains part of the second-gear synchro apparatus.

Despite this, the transmission now shifts like it was new. The 1-2 gearchange is smooth and easy under all conditions, with no double-clutching necessary. I have heard a few folks say that it takes time for this lube to do its job, but the improvement here was total and immediate. The very first drive after the oil change evidenced a complete remission of the difficult gearchange.

Highly recommended.

Winning! I'm glad it worked out for you :bigtu:

Back in the day with I tried the Motorcraft in my 5 speed I had the hardest time convincing the guy at the Ford dealer to sell me the stuff. I can *kinda* understand why, because the T5 5 speed manual in the fox body Mustang takes ATF rather than gear oil... :rofl:

After a lot of soul-searching, I put Motorcraft Unicorn Tears in my replacement Quaife tranny. So far, I'm very pleased - shift action is light and precise. Once I begin track days again in the spring, I'll let you know if I'm still pleased.

Amsoil 75w-90 for me. A little finnicky when cold but you just need to be more positive with your shifts.

Honestly, the MiataRoadster shifter is what improved shifting for me altogether. Before I said so much play in my shifter I always missed 3rd/4th.

That in conjunction with Amsoil makes a nice snick-snick shift with zero syncro bind, grinding, or problems, even in 40* weather.

I've always had a problem with 2-3rd hard shifts with some pretty bad grinding even when being very firm with the shifter and attentive foot work. Previous fluid was unknown, had valvoline 75w90 in this season, wasn't any better. However, shifter feel has always been nice and smooth. I did change to a Ralco shifter after having a bit of an incident with the stock shifter and it feels really satisfying. Shock proof was mentioned earlier to help the problem. Has anyone else had the same problem going on?

The parts guy at my local Ford dealer just made some smartass remark about selling me Ford parts for my Miata like I didn't know what I was doing.

Glad it worked out for you Joe. $25 a bottle is way too much though, believe the local dealer had it for $17.

I think I actually paid around $20 a bottle at the local Ford dealer. Online vendors seemed to average around $25-26.

Regardless, it's good stuff. I've heard a lot of scattered opinions about Amsoil this and Redline that... I've run the Redline MT90 in the past, and wasn't really impressed. I'm sure the stuff probably exhibits excellent longevity on the track, but it didn't seem any different from the cheapest GL4 I found at the FLAPS for daily-driver use in sub-freezing temps. I've found my new go-to oil.

Really interesting how you felt an immediate improvement. Whatever was in there must have been really old and terrible.
I've yet to experience any sort of "immediate, big" improvement on any transmission with any fluid. The differences are usually really subtle if at all noticeable.

Good to know. I plan on going this route as well. My MiataRoadster kit is still on my desk at home just waiting. :crx:

Hopefully the Amsoil is a improvement over redline when cold :vash: 1-2 shift drives me crazy in the morning.

While the gearbox was still nearly full, I would imagine that whatever was in there was the original 10 year old factory-fill with 130k miles on it. So, yes, this is obviously a case of replacing something that was ridiculously worn out with something that was not, but I wasn't expecting a simple oil change to make so huge a difference- I'd been assuming that I'd be shopping for a new transmission in the near future.



If nothing is broken, there's nothing to fix.

Unless you're in marketing.

I have the same problem as Joe every winter, almost feels like there's some kind of lock out on second gear. I usually just shift from 1st to 3rd until everything gets up to temp. Double clutching and rev matching don't phase it if its below like 40 degrees.

I put in Redline MTL last winter and didn't really see any improvement. I have been planning on rebuilding the shifter this winter since I know it needs new boots. Guess I'll give Motorcraft a try!

I've been running the Motorcraft for 5 years now. It's good stuff.

You all should qualify your statements with transmission type and usage. Remember Joe is talking about his DD 5 speed car here.

In my early-vin, narrow-shifter-ball 6speed, I have been running the Motorcraft for 5 years. In DD conditions. In Autocross. Through 30 track days.

Not the same 2 quarts for all of that obviously.

How thick is the Motorcraft stuff? Between 10w30 and gear oil, or straight up gear oil?

As I remember it, its pretty thin. Much closer to motor oil than gear oil. After mucking about with other gear oils I remember second guessing the Motorcraft stuff because it seemed much thinner. Joe can probably give you a better answer.

As I said in post 18, my 80K 5-speed XMSN was an immediate change from sluggish cold to smooth shifting when I put in the Motorcraft. Not needing a few week's of driving. I don't think Joe's experience was all that unique. It sounds like his unit was in much worse shape than mine, but I'm saying it does not have to be trash to see a change.

The other time I saw a drastic change was when Dad's 220D Mercedes manual had gear dope in it and we put in the correct ATF that was called for. THAT also had a drastic, immediate effect.

I plan to run the Dumondetech Fluid this year in Lazarus, super thick stuff, not great on the street, but should be pretty great for track use based on reviews I've seen from local peeps.

Where do you get your motorcraft. Local?