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Old 06-06-2009, 05:39 PM   #21
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Steering feel is much better without the PS. I depowered mine, reduced the caster to about 4 degs. and I really like it. I'll never go back.
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Old 06-06-2009, 08:57 PM   #22
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Depower the rack. The quicker ratio makes the car feel like a go-kart. Plus, the steering will feedback everything to you, like "hey, you just ran over a pebble", or "yo fool, you're understeering like a sucka, stop cranking in more steering".
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Old 06-08-2009, 06:18 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by FRT_Fun View Post
I was told by the shop that I bought it from that it was smaller, as in diameter I think, as well as lighter, and that he will ship the mounting brackets that was used on the car because the p/s rack ones will not work. Like I said this is all what I have heard, I will have some comparison pictures when I have both out.

I can't imagine that a manual rack would be the same size/weight as the powered one. So this made sense to me. We will see I guess.

Manual rack is 13# and the power rack is 17#. Not a lot of difference between the two with regard to weight. I just installed the new bushings on my manual rack, but have not driven it yet. It's still in surgery with a complete new drive train being installed.

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Old 06-14-2009, 08:00 PM   #24
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Depower.. I've had both looped and "proper" I couldnt tell the difference.

Having depowered steering also keeps people from wanting to drive your car, mostly because they are pussies. This alone is worth depowering.

This.
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Old 06-14-2009, 09:08 PM   #25
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I'll throw in my ... Hear a lot of people crying about how the power racks are "over powered." I've auto-x'd the **** out of mine (Worn out stock suspension though..) and its perfectly fine to me.. Maybe there is a difference between good suspension and bad suspension with power / non-power racks??
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Old 06-14-2009, 09:13 PM   #26
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It's overpowered IMHO in that you can't feel jack through the power steering, it just feels disconnected.
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Old 06-14-2009, 10:45 PM   #27
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Yeah it is not so much being overpowered IMO; it is the lack of feel. In my experience, going from PS to a FM style depowered rack, feedback is really a lot better. If the PS setup transmitted the tire activity to the wheel as well then it would be as good, but it does not, so IMO it is not.
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Old 08-26-2010, 06:32 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by mojoriffic1 View Post
when depowering the rack you will get ultimate steering response when the pinion is welded b/c otherwise there is a small amount of "slop".
Resurrecting a dead thread. Anyone DIY'd this, or is no one bothered by the amount of play?
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Old 08-26-2010, 08:17 PM   #29
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I've been driving without a PS belt for a week now and it's really not bad at ALL but I do work out every day...

I've sourced a manual rack and am pulling the trigger on it very soon. I bet the manual steering will feel like power-assisted compared to how it feels right now without a PS belt...
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Old 08-27-2010, 09:57 AM   #30
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Resurrecting a dead thread. Anyone DIY'd this, or is no one bothered by the amount of play?
I've done it four times. Can't comment on the difference because I've never driven with a de-powered rack that didn't have a welded pinion shaft.
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Old 08-27-2010, 12:38 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Thucydides View Post
I've done it four times. Can't comment on the difference because I've never driven with a de-powered rack that didn't have a welded pinion shaft.
I better not be the only one who hasn't...
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Old 08-27-2010, 12:55 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by MartinezA92 View Post
I better not be the only one who hasn't...
I think most folks don't weld the pinion because it's much easier to drain the fluid and loop the lines, and if it's not done really well it can be a big problem.

If you decide to go with a welded shaft, have a good look at those posts about adjusting the yoke to rack pre-load. This is the adjustment that determines if your rack is crap, or a thing of beauty.

Here's a description from a thread on Miata.net:

I follow this procedure (using the metric equivalent torque) to get me close to where I want to be but I finish the adjustment by feel.

Within a few degrees of either side of where this procedure will get you you may find there's a noticeable change in steering resistance as felt at the pinion. I check resistance at the pinion by attaching a small vice grip to the pinion splines which I protect with a thick layer of paper towel. Whatever you do don't harm those splines or you'll have a hell of a hard time hooking the steering shaft up to the pinion.

Anyway, once you've followed the factory procedure you can gently swing the vice grip back and forth while slowly tightening (or loosening) the support yoke adjustment. I aim for the point where the turning resistance just begins that climb to becoming more difficult to turn. In other words, you want the yoke to give maximum support without it imparting significant friction. You may have to search for that point, but it's really pretty obvious once you've done it a couple of times. Once you're there, tighten the lock nut but be sure the yoke adjustment doesn't move (and tighten) with the lock nut or you'll have to redo the adjustment. You may have to hold the adjustment nut with a box wrench while cinching down the lock nut.

The net result (along with using P/S fluid in the rack cylinder) should be a really great feeling, quick, light, and essentially totally play-free steering rack. And yeah, it will be completely worth the time and trouble.


Here's the link from whence it came: http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=335874

Last edited by Thucydides; 08-27-2010 at 01:21 PM.
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Old 11-02-2010, 11:43 AM   #33
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Re-resurrecting a twice-dead thread.

If you want to see exactly how much slop you still have with an un-welded pinion shaft, there's a video in the middle of my Miatabusa steering rack depower story:


http://www.motoiq.com/magazine_artic...ring-rack.aspx

I really can't imagine going to all the effort of an FM depower without spending the extra 20 minutes to weld up the input shaft.

-Dave
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Old 11-02-2010, 01:18 PM   #34
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I depowered but not fully. Plugged the holes with miataroadster plugs. Didn't bother removing the rack to cut the seals out.
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Old 11-02-2010, 05:57 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eyesoreracing View Post
Re-resurrecting a twice-dead thread.

If you want to see exactly how much slop you still have with an un-welded pinion shaft, there's a video in the middle of my Miatabusa steering rack depower story:


http://www.motoiq.com/magazine_artic...ring-rack.aspx

I really can't imagine going to all the effort of an FM depower without spending the extra 20 minutes to weld up the input shaft.

-Dave
Nor could I.
Jim
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Old 11-02-2010, 10:09 PM   #36
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You really need to cut the seals out to get proper depower.
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Old 11-02-2010, 10:50 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by jacob300zx View Post
You really need to cut the seals out to get proper depower.
The only seal I now remove is the rack piston seal. It's probably completely unnecessary, and a lot of added work, but I remove the piston as well.

The rest of the smaller seals are actually useful to keep some P/S fluid in for lubrication of the passenger side end of the rack, and to keep grease within, and dirt out of, the pinion body. The contribution of the little seals to friction is negligible, but the reduction in friction at the passenger end of the rack using P/S fluid rather than a thicker grease (like I used to do when I removed the seal there), is huge.
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Old 01-13-2011, 12:26 AM   #38
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How difficult is de-powering the PS without having the engine pulled?
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Old 01-13-2011, 12:53 AM   #39
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It is pretty easy to do if you remove the header.
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Old 01-13-2011, 12:05 PM   #40
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I just took the lines and pump off of mine. I can't even tell the difference. Maybe I'll plug the holes someday, but probably not. the steering on it is still lighter than my power-steering equipped ford pickup.

if you have trouble turning the wheel on reasonably sized tires there is something wrong with your car or something wrong with your arms.
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