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Old 05-16-2009, 05:19 PM   #1
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Default Need help with wheel hop

Any drag racers out there have/had issues with wheel hop? Went to the drags last night, and my sixty foots are in the dump because the car is wheel hopping like crazy. What helps?

Tire pressure?
shock adjustment?
solid differential mounts?
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Old 05-16-2009, 06:28 PM   #2
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The biggest thing that helped my car was the addition of stiffer motor mounts and the poly diff mounts. It either grabs and goes, or spins. Either way, there's zero wheel hop. I'm running RS2s at around 20# which just don't have enough traction at my power level.
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Old 05-16-2009, 06:35 PM   #3
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I dragged my car a few times, the thing is, I still have the stock clutch. I would tach it to like 4 grand and dump it, and wheel hop city. I can't launch it like that anymore, cause that was before turbo, and now if I launch it hard my clutch will slip through 2nd, 3rd, and 4th. This thread might possibly start something interesting. Example of RWD hook up is here:
I used to have a 1988 Trans Am GTA. It had a 3.27 posi rear (straight axle) and I could slide it sideways and do donuts anywhere. My '99 Miata I think has 4.30 gears and of course it's independent. The T/A was rated at 230hp/330torque, and weighted 3520lbs. My miata was dynoed at 209hp/206ft-lbs and weights 2350. That light little go cart of mine sticks to the road. It was a little wet out the other day, I pulled out from a stop sign and hit the gas a little as I turned, and it barely slid. My T/A woulda did a 180, but the Miata woulda dusted the T/A by more than a second in the quarter mile. The only suspension upgrade I have done to my car is FM sways.
The reason I compared the miata to the T/A is because if you'd jack both cars up and look at the underside, they are very much the same setup, only different rears. The Miata and the F body both use a torq arm setup.
Perhaps there is some kind of rear bracing or traction bar setup made specifically for the miata?
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Old 05-17-2009, 12:15 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by JayL View Post
The biggest thing that helped my car was the addition of stiffer motor mounts and the poly diff mounts. It either grabs and goes, or spins. Either way, there's zero wheel hop. I'm running RS2s at around 20# which just don't have enough traction at my power level.
I'm running RS2's as well. I'll try the lower pressure next time and see if that helps any. Will also look into changing the differential bushings. I have poly diff "inserts" and they don't seem to help at all.
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Old 05-17-2009, 12:41 AM   #5
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Ae you on stock suspension? You mentioned shock adjustments but no mention of your suspension in your sig. If not, try softening the rear. I remember PatsMX5 saying that.
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Old 05-17-2009, 01:18 AM   #6
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Here's a few items that I copied from the another forum that I frequent (if any of it helps, please send thanks to the Supra forums), most of them apply to us as well:

When you launch your car from a stop there are two main things going on. Transfer of weight from the front to the rear and then hooking. If you want a better launch, you need to optimize both of these.

Working the Clutch:
There simply is no excuse for the “bog” or “sit and spin” if you’ve driven your manual car for more than a month.

Every single day you can get tons of practice launching. Every single stop light, every single stop sign. I’m not telling you to stage like you’re at the track and try and burn rubber like a madman. I am telling you to figure out what your clutch setup likes. You can launch hard and still be perfectly legal on the street. You drive your car, so get to know how it drives.

Most of the time, launching at the track is just like regular driving. The speed that you release the clutch pedal during normal driving, is the same speed you release it while launching at the track. Thinking you have to rev and then just dump the clutch is why people sit and spin or bog. Bring your revs up high, and release the clutch the same speed as if you were easing away from a stop light. This works with most clutch setups. But like I said earlier, get to know how your car launches. You should know how to work your clutch for good launches before you ever goto the track.

Boost from the line:
Boosted Manual cars have a big disadvantage at the track. No boost from the line. This is easy to cure. It’s called a two-step, or rev limiter. You step on the gas and the two-step will artificially limit your revs at a lower level (you usually set this at your launch rpm. You should know your launch rpm because you have practiced and know what works). This loads the engine and you will get boost. Launch and shut off the two step. There you go, manual car with boost from the line. It can mean the difference between starting out with over a hundred or more horsepower from a turbo that’s actually spooled up.

If you are serious about dragging with a manual, you need to get a rev limiter/two step.

You can get it running with the MSD DIS-4PN 6215, Dis-4. It will also require 2 of the PN 8912 Adapters. Theres another one that works but I cant remeber it right now. I'll put the info in when I remeber it.

Here's what a 2step sounds/looks like if you have never heard/seen one. It basicly just sounds like hitting the rev limiter like normal. This is duane building boost at the line and whuppin a mk4. Funny Videos, Funny Pictures, Flash Games, Jokes

Power shifting
WARNING – This can **** up your tranny with a quickness. But if you just need that extra 0.1-0.3 you can do it.

Power shifting is when you keep your foot planted on the gas and barely, barely, barely, touch the clutch pedal just to release the clutch, then jam it into the next gear with your foot already off the clutch pedal. It is very fast and will keep your turbo spooled. But it’s rough as **** on the transmission.

I personally don’t recommend it because to me a grenaded tranny isn’t worth a time difference that could be attributed to standard deviation anyways.

Suspension set up:

Sway bar / End links:
I keep saying this but people aren’t listening. When at the track, disconnect the front sway bars. This goes back to the original concept that I talked about earlier. Transfer of weight to the rear of the vehicle. With the front sway bar disconnected it allows freer movement of the front suspension. Lets weight shift occur easier. Disconnecting the front sway bar is de facto standard in pretty much most auto enthusiast groups aside from the moron import crowd.

Don’t drive to the track with them disconnected though. That wont be fun. Also before you do this at the track, disconnect them once or twice and drive around your neighborhood to get a feel for what its like with them off. You don’t want to get squirrelly down the track your first time with them off. Know how it drives.

With adjustable end links it’s makes unattaching the front bar a breeze. Just disconnect the lower tie on the tie bar. It also allows you to adjust your rear sway bar to fine tune your launch. There are one or two places that sell them I think. Or you can just make your own. I made my own as seen below:

If you dropped your car, you now more than likely have negative camber. When you launch an IRS car, the camber moves to the negative. If you are already there, launching just makes your tires have a small little contact patch. This is a big reason why you dropped folks launch so shitty. Yeah your JDM dorifto million degrees of negative camber crap looks cool (to you), but it sucks for launching. Dial in a degree or two of positive camber before you go to the track. When you launch you ideally want zero camber, a flat contact patch. So if you are just a degree or two positive before you launch, when it squats you zero out. Perfect.

This is really something you just need to adjust and test for yourself. For some people hard front soft rear works better for them, for others vice versa. There are just too many different combos to tell you exactly what to do. I will tell you not to go full hard all around. It goes back to the original concept. You want weight to be able to shift to the back, then you want to hook.

Try starting out with the front abit harder than the rear. Then work from there. If you mess with the ride height, make sure you adjust the camber.

Rims and Tires:
Sorry, but those low profile 17s just aint gonna cut it.

The second part of the concept is hooking. Without decent tires, the best suspension in the world won’t mean crap. If you are serious about dragging, you need to go back to 15s. You just cant get good drag tires in 17+.

Spend the 300 bucks on some nice fat quality drag radials or slicks. Only run them at the track. If this means buying an extra set of rims, then so be it. Some 225 slicks will hook better than some 315 street tires. So just drop the coin.

Nice big sidewalls are what you want. This allows the tire to flex and hook. Check the drag racing section to see what kind of success people are having with certain brands and certain compounds. If in doubt, go stickier.

If you have to run on street tires, don’t do a burn out. Street tires don’t work like drag tires. Getting them hot makes them slick. Just a quick spin to get the dirt off is all you need. Also, DRIVE AROUND the burnout box. You’re not doing a burnout anyways. By driving through it you’re just sloshing water into the staging area and making your tires even slicker.

Tire pressure
This will vary by the tire, so it’s abit of experimenting with this one. First off over inflate the front tires 8-12 psi. Over inflated = less contact patch = less rolling resistance.

Now to find the sweet spot with the rears. Have them inflated to their full pressure. Right off the bat you can probably drop them 5psi. Now go take two runs and then drop them 5 more psi. Rinse and repeat until you get really good 60ft times.

This is what should be another de facto upgrade. Everyone but our community does this off the bat. If you show me someone that says short gears are unusable with any decent amount of horsepower, ill show you someone that doesn’t know a properly set up suspension from their own *******. I have heard too many people say to stay away from the 4.3s because they are just spin fests. If someone tells you that, dont listen to any of their advice again; they just let you know they don't know ****.

The domestic 1/8 mile guys run gears in the 6.x range with more horsepower than anyone on this whole board makes. Yet they have no problem hooking. It’s called proper setup and good tires.

Here are our choices: 3.6, 3.9, 4.1, 4.3. If you want to go faster in the 1/4 mile, you need a higher number. If you have a 3.6 try going up to a 3.9, if that’s not enough try the 4.1, etc. etc.

The main point of concern is if you are a manual. You might have issues where you are redlining 200 ft out. Not enough time to shift, but coasting will just kill your times. In this situation you might want to step back a gear. OR get some taller side walled tires. A simple taller tire change can cure those shifting blues.

Going from 3.6 to 4.3 is a tremendous difference and your times will reflect it.

Every 100 pounds lost = 0.1 faster in the quarter mile. That means you can potentially go much, much quicker by shedding some weight. It also explains why your car with the mad tight system with four 15 inch subwoofers is so slow. Take that **** out if you’re going to go to the track.

All weight loss is not good weight loss though. If you only remove weight from the rear of the car, you wont be able to hook. You do need weight over the tires to make them hook.

When removing weight, try to keep it even or take more weight off the front. Our cars are nose heavy anyways, so try and work up there. If you can move things to the back, do so; such as the battery.

Also remember that every 1 pound of rotational mass = 10 pounds of static mass. This is another reason why you shouldn’t try and drag with those heavy *** 17s of yours. Get you some nice light rims.

At the Track:
Keep your car off as long as you can while in the lanes. Heat soak is not your friend. Ever wonder why some people push their cars while in the staging lanes? Keeping them cool by keeping them off.

Pop your hood while in the staging lanes, let it get nice and cool in there. Just make sure your hood is nice and securely closed about 3 cars prior to running.

Those sneaky tricks
Bring a spray bottle of rubbing alcohol. While in the staging lanes spray down your intercooler, hard pipes, and intake manifold. It’s great for cooling things with a quickness.

Don’t want to spend the cash on a C02 or N02 intercooler sprayer? Just get the bottle then and some extra tubing. Make sure you hold the bottle upside down, point the tubing at your intercooler and spray away.

Stage shallow. Just barely get the all good lights to come on. That way you’ll be rolling before you break the track lights. You know, kinda cheating but not really? Haha.

Here’s another one from mike. Clean and wax your front bumper, hood, roof. Wind drag goes up cubed (or is it squared? I forget) after 60mph. I don’t know about you, but I go abit faster than 60mph in the quarter mile. Less drag = faster times.

Over all:

It should take very little work to get your car fast. It’s just a matter of doing it right. Get your suspension set up right, get some good tires, practice launching.

If you want more drag racing hints, visit some domestic board.
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Old 05-17-2009, 03:21 AM   #7
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There's a few things in there that I can work on. Some of them are a bit much (camber adjustment) to do at the track. The shock and tire settings should help. I do plan on getting some drag radials by the end of the season.

BTW: Shocks are GAZ coilovers.
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Old 05-17-2009, 06:41 AM   #8
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FYI - wheelhop is what killed my Torsen. If it starts, get out of the throttle.
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Old 05-17-2009, 12:18 PM   #9
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I have been, and that is what has killed my 60' times. I did manage to have it hop only once then hook pretty good, but the 60' was still only a 2.21.
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