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Old 07-03-2008, 06:57 PM   #1
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Default need to keep stock height

ok,

so now that the turbo is up and running, i love to drive the car and all that, but, the corners seem to come a little too fast now.
i'm running stock springs and shocks, which after 12 years arent that great...
i dont feel any confidence in cornering, and it's scaring the **** out of me. plus driving straight isnt that much fun.

so, you must be thinking why i dont get a good set of lower springs and shocks and be done with it. the entrance to my garage is a bitch. no way to change it, and i have 1cm to play with it, no more. after this, it scratches the floor of the entrance!
i've searched around, and didnt find lowering springs with just -1cm.

so i'm thinking, should i just buy some koni's or bilstein's both adjustable, and keep the stock springs, which will improve the handling a bit, or just go with a coilover kit, and set it to stock height -1cm and this obviously will give much more steady drive?

you see, i use the car on daily basis, not looking for track days, and all i really want is to reduce body roll when cornering and braking. just want it to be a bit firmer, less bouncing around.

coilvers seem a bit expensive for this purpose, a good set of koni sport are cheap, but will they reduce the roll that much? what do you guys think?
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Old 07-03-2008, 07:30 PM   #2
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ground control + koni or bilstein.
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Old 07-03-2008, 07:57 PM   #3
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ground control + koni or bilstein.
so what's the difference between buying these http://www.flyinmiata.com/index.php?...0%20%201990-97 and the shocks separately, or just go with a koni coilover kit like this one http://www.mx5parts.co.uk/product_in...roducts_id/350 ?
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Old 07-03-2008, 08:18 PM   #4
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Go to my thread and read, I bet all the questions you are gonna ask I have already.
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Old 07-03-2008, 08:55 PM   #5
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I think a good set of shocks and the largest set of anti-roll bars you can find would be the best choice.
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Old 07-03-2008, 09:23 PM   #6
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1- Good shocks. Revalved Bilstein HDs, Illuminas, or Koni Sports.
2- FCM 36 or 46mm bumpstops. (Call FCM for application info)
3a- either FCM spring perches + 2.5" springs in the 350/250 to 400/300 range + FCM NB style upper mounts, or
3b- Ground Control coilovers + FCM NB style upper mounts.
4- FM/RB/Moss front solid 7/8" (22mm) swaybar, and no rear swaybar.

= excellent ride comfort, ride height where you want it, and awesome, predictable handling.


By themselves, good shocks won't do anything positive with weak springs. Springs are the primary means for setting up the "personality" of the chassis- the shocks are there to keep the springs under control.

Big swaybars on an otherwise stock chassis will reduce body roll while at the same time reducing overall grip. The front/rear swaybar "kits" sold by FM and the like have too large of a rear bar relative to the front bar, and will make the car much more oversteery than stock. After you've got everything else in order, purchase and install a 7/8" front swaybar and see how you like the handling. Then disconnect the rear swaybar, and see how you like that. I opted to leave my rear bar out altogether.
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Old 07-04-2008, 03:34 AM   #7
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I had my stock springs on my Koni sports at first, it helped for sure. It made for a firmer ride but it didn't change much else. There was still alot of body roll and the ride was too soft. You'll need springs and a front bar for sure.

Get the FCM mounts and bumpstops if you can. I installed mine and I can tell there is more travel. I keep flexing my body up to get ready for that hard hit over every bump, but it never happens with the extra travel. Good stuff for sure.
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Old 07-04-2008, 03:49 AM   #8
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exactly the answer i was looking for!
i'll give FCM a call today...

muchas gracias!
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Old 07-04-2008, 03:51 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
1- Good shocks. Revalved Bilstein HDs, Illuminas, or Koni Sports.
2- FCM 36 or 46mm bumpstops. (Call FCM for application info)
3a- either FCM spring perches + 2.5" springs in the 350/250 to 400/300 range + FCM NB style upper mounts, or
3b- Ground Control coilovers + FCM NB style upper mounts.
4- FM/RB/Moss front solid 7/8" (22mm) swaybar, and no rear swaybar.

= excellent ride comfort, ride height where you want it, and awesome, predictable handling.


By themselves, good shocks won't do anything positive with weak springs. Springs are the primary means for setting up the "personality" of the chassis- the shocks are there to keep the springs under control.

Big swaybars on an otherwise stock chassis will reduce body roll while at the same time reducing overall grip. The front/rear swaybar "kits" sold by FM and the like have too large of a rear bar relative to the front bar, and will make the car much more oversteery than stock. After you've got everything else in order, purchase and install a 7/8" front swaybar and see how you like the handling. Then disconnect the rear swaybar, and see how you like that. I opted to leave my rear bar out altogether.

btw joe, what spring rates you're using and how lowered (cm) you got your car?
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Old 07-04-2008, 04:56 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mx5dude69 View Post
btw joe, what spring rates you're using and how lowered (cm) you got your car?
Well, I began my suspension project without really doing all my homework, by purchasing a set of FM springs (318 / 233) based upon the fact that I was afraid of going "too stiff" on the grounds that I believed it would compromise ride comfort. With the AGX shocks I had at the time, this proved true.

I then had a set of Bilsteins revalved by FCM, and paired them with FCM's NB upper mounts and 46mm bumpstops. The NB mounts, along with the FM springs, resulted in an unacceptably low ride height- approximately 12.25" center-to-fender in the front and 12.5" rear. The body scraped over every speed bump. For reference, my original ride height was 13.5" front, 14.2" rear.

I lathed a set of spacers to raise the spring perches on the shocks by 0.9 inches, and this resulted in a ride height of 13" front, 13.25" rear. This ride height proved acceptable. Moreover, and somewhat to my surprise, ride comfort is improved tremendously over stock. In particular, the suspension now soaks up bumps and potholes quite gracefully, instead of harshly bottoming. Body roll is drastically decreased, and overall handling is tremendously improved. In fact, had I to do it over again, I'd have chosen even stronger springs, and an adjustable "coilover" spring perch to make adjusting the preload and ride height easier.

The combination of a 22mm front bar (set at the outer mounting holes) and no rear bar, along with this spring package, causes the car to understeer slightly in neutral cornering, which can be easily and safely corrected into controllable oversteer with the throttle. When I previously had an aftermarket rear bar in place, the car tended to oversteer dangerously both on trailing brake and applied throttle. This contributed to many exciting moments, including one rather spectacular spin during a group run in the mountains.
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Old 07-05-2008, 06:24 AM   #11
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thx for the details joe. i didnt knew the NB bumpstops alone would lower the car...
but to keep the stock height they recommended the 54mm
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Old 07-05-2008, 08:52 AM   #12
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Can't believe you can't do "something" to correct the garage problem. How about wooden ramps that start at the door and take you up at an angle inside?
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Old 07-05-2008, 09:41 AM   #13
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Can't believe you can't do "something" to correct the garage problem. How about wooden ramps that start at the door and take you up at an angle inside?
you're right, it could be easily fixed with a bit of cement to level the ramp. but, because i live in a building with a common garage, it needs to be approved in a meeting with all the residents.
let me tell you, it took them 3 months to argue/decide/approve what sort of colour to use on the metal boxes for the mail outside the front door of the building... see what i mean?
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Old 07-05-2008, 01:22 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mx5dude69 View Post
thx for the details joe. i didnt knew the NB bumpstops alone would lower the car...
but to keep the stock height they recommended the 54mm
The bumpstops do not affect ride height at all. They recommend 54mm stops for cars with stock springs (which are therefore already at stock ride height) but with stiffer springs you don't need as long a stop.

The NB upper mounts do lower the car by appx. 1/2", since they change the location of the upper spring perch. By using adjustable coilovers and the appropriate length springs, you should be able to get this lost height back.
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Old 07-05-2008, 05:43 PM   #15
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Of course you could always go this route:

http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0geu6e722...uspension_car/

But then remember, he is one of those "Malibu" guys.
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Old 07-06-2008, 08:16 AM   #16
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i dont even think you can get one of those things fit around here...
i'm waiting on the reply from fatcatmotorsports, and I guess i can get away with a 2cm drop, so i guess it will still be a big improvement over stock.

thx again
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