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Old 11-30-2013, 07:09 AM   #1
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Default Pads selection for wilwood 11.75 and rears sport combo

I use to run Carbotech XP12 front and rear on my sport brakes. Tried XP10 in the back but it wasn't feeling right for me. Maybe it could work better with Wilwood prop valve that I bought at the end of the season...

I got some TSE 11.75 wilwood and will begin next season with my rear sport brakes. Look like Hawk DTC-70 and DTC-60 is a good combo but saw some of you running carbotech and cobalt to name these.

It will be a pleasure to read your experience on this subject !
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Old 11-30-2013, 10:19 AM   #2
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Can you tell us more about your car? I'm on mobile so apologize if it's in your signature and I've overlooked it. HP, weight, tires, etc?

There are a few guys with positive feedback with the Cobalts and lots of guys with good experience with DTC-60 all around (myself among the latter).
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Old 11-30-2013, 12:54 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrappy Jack View Post
Can you tell us more about your car? I'm on mobile so apologize if it's in your signature and I've overlooked it. HP, weight, tires, etc?

There are a few guys with positive feedback with the Cobalts and lots of guys with good experience with DTC-60 all around (myself among the latter).
Yeah setup info could be good... sorry

Car : 00 N/A, ST 11:1, 8200RPM
HP : 145WHP (cap)
Weight : 2100 lbs
Tires : Nitto Nt-01 225/45/15 on 15x9
Suspension : JIC Magic 800lbs / 500lbs (for the moment), 1.125 RB + brace + reinforcement bracket, no rear bar or FM 15mm
Purpose : Track only
Will try 6 speed and 4.3 with
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Old 11-30-2013, 04:42 PM   #4
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DTC60F DTC60R. The 70s have too much initial bite for a Miata.
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Old 12-01-2013, 07:44 AM   #5
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Think I'll do that. I was using titanium brake shim, I guess I can mod them to fit dynalite caliper, any Q on this Sav or only cooling duct will be enough ?
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Old 12-03-2013, 12:50 AM   #6
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I haven't been given a reason to try Ti shims yet.
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Old 02-08-2014, 09:10 PM   #7
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I was looking for friction coefficient of hawk vs carbotech and dtc-60 seems a good match for rear xp10. Will try that in testing with the Xida and mazdaspeed sway bar coming in march.

Maybe the new setup will need way less rear brake and the car will rotate in better then with jic...we all see.

Last edited by joyrider; 02-09-2014 at 12:19 AM.
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Old 02-09-2014, 01:36 PM   #8
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+1 on DTC 60 instead of DTC 70. For me, the initial bite on the 70s makes it too easy to flat spot tires. I also use DTC 60 rears with the sport rotors and stock calipers.
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Old 02-11-2014, 11:02 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joyrider View Post
I use to run Carbotech XP12 front and rear on my sport brakes. Tried XP10 in the back but it wasn't feeling right for me. Maybe it could work better with Wilwood prop valve that I bought at the end of the season...

I got some TSE 11.75 wilwood and will begin next season with my rear sport brakes. Look like Hawk DTC-70 and DTC-60 is a good combo but saw some of you running carbotech and cobalt to name these.

It will be a pleasure to read your experience on this subject !
For an 11.75/Sport setup I like XP10 front, XP8 rear with a prop valve. XP12/10 if the car has over 180whp. Bonus points for a 1" master but the 94-00 master/booster still feels good.
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Old 02-12-2014, 07:09 AM   #10
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How different is the pad/rotor wear between DTC-60 and XP10?
The price difference is not small (but I have been happy with XP12/10 on the small 1.8/sport).
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Old 02-12-2014, 02:15 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NiklasFalk View Post
How different is the pad/rotor wear between DTC-60 and XP10?
The price difference is not small (but I have been happy with XP12/10 on the small 1.8/sport).
I don't run Hawks so I couldn't say. All the shops that sell Hawks say they last longer.

On a 140whp 2400# Miata with 225/45 NT01's driven at it's limit on track, I would expect 6-8hrs for front and about 25-40hrs for rear. with 12/10 on 11.75/Sport with brake ducts. Less without ducts.

Rotor wear with XP is very low. We typically get 3-4 sets of front pads per rotor. The cracks usually get too big before they're worn down.
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Old 02-14-2014, 05:37 PM   #12
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11" front & sport rear. Running dtc 60s all around. 2300lb (full tank and driver) 250hp.

Ran xp12s and xp10s when I had sport brakes all around with 205hp. Hated them as they didn't last a Texas summer and chucked all over my rotors. Have had the same 60s on for a years worth of track time and like the feel a whole lot better.
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Old 02-16-2014, 01:34 AM   #13
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I am running Cobalt XR2 front and XR3 rear on 949 11" Wilwoods & Sport Rear. I could not be happier with the setup. Pad life is amazing! I am going on 10 days now with a fair amount of pad left. Rotors have a uniform grey color with no cracking so far. They seem to behave the same when cold as when they are hot. Good to go right out of the gate. Modulation and release is excellent as well.

I use to run XP12f and XP10r on the stock setup. I burned through the front pads in one track day (very long open track day).

I think the 949 11" BBK played a big role in the extended life of the Cobalts. I had good ducting with both setups.

Last edited by k24madness; 02-17-2014 at 12:10 PM.
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Old 02-17-2014, 07:52 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k24madness View Post
I am running Cobalt XR2 front and XR3 rear on 949 11" Wilwoods & Sport Rear. I could not be happier with the setup. Pad life is amazing! I am going on 10 days now with a fair amount of pad left. Rotors have a uniform grey color with no cracking so far. They seem to behave the same when cold as when they are hot. Good to go right out of the gate. Modulation and release is excellent as well.

I use to run XP12f and XP10r on the stock setup. I burned through the front pads in one track day (very long open track day).

I think the 949 11" BBK played a big role in the extended life of the Cobalts. I had good ducting with both setups.
Not surprising your Wilwood directional race brake (11/10.9")/Cobalt setup gave you better pad life than previous OEM non directional NA8 (9.4/9") brake/Carbotech setup. At your power (250whp?) with slicks, OEM brakes do not have enough thermal capacity. I'd expect XP12 fronts to last no more than 5-6hrs on stock brakes with that much power/slicks but last nearly twice that long on an 11" Wilwood setup.

So your testimonial on pad life should perhaps be taken with a grain of salt for anyone reading, since it wasn't a direct A/B comparison. I seem to recall Andrew running NA6 brakes with over 200whp for a brief period. Car stopped, brakes didn't fade but pad life was measured in feet. I believe that's what prompted the development of the TSE 11.75 kit.
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Old 02-18-2014, 12:06 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
Not surprising your Wilwood directional race brake (11/10.9")/Cobalt setup gave you better pad life than previous OEM non directional NA8 (9.4/9") brake/Carbotech setup. At your power (250whp?) with slicks, OEM brakes do not have enough thermal capacity. I'd expect XP12 fronts to last no more than 5-6hrs on stock brakes with that much power/slicks but last nearly twice that long on an 11" Wilwood setup.

So your testimonial on pad life should perhaps be taken with a grain of salt for anyone reading, since it wasn't a direct A/B comparison. I seem to recall Andrew running NA6 brakes with over 200whp for a brief period. Car stopped, brakes didn't fade but pad life was measured in feet. I believe that's what prompted the development of the TSE 11.75 kit.
I agree the BBK played a big role in the extended pad life of the new Cobalts. It more than paid for itself after a few track days based on the pad savings. I would encourage anyone who runs a lot of track days to do the same regardless of power levels.
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Old 02-18-2014, 09:33 PM   #16
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Even more extended pad life using Dynapro radial mount calipers instead of Dynalite. Pads are thicker to get 25% more life out of the same compound than you get with Dynalite or DP6.

My setup with 11.75 front 11.44 rears 1.6l pads on the rear results in front pads wearing through usable life at pretty close to the same rate as the rears.
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Old 02-20-2014, 07:08 PM   #17
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I've just run a LONG track day with my new 11.75" setup with a passenger all day.

240hp, 9" wheels with nitto 225. NO ducting, no backing plates.

XP10 front XP8 rear.

Feel and braking power/force was great.

No sign of fade or heat related issues on a 27 deg Celsius day...

I haven't checked for wear yet, I am hoping they will last a reasonable time....worried now, will check when I get home.
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Old 02-23-2014, 04:43 PM   #18
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Will continue my journey with Carbotech pads, they gave me great support even when I was running another car and they didn't list my application.They made new pads with the backing plate I sent them. That was awesome service.

Modulation is so incredible with those and Mike Jr is such an awesome guy to deal with.

I will add them to my existing 949 order when supermiata damper wil be back in stock, will continue with front XP12 and sport XP10 that I have left.
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