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Old 09-11-2015, 11:12 AM   #1
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Default Re-Spring Tein FLEX or replace?

The car is an 04 MSM with a bit over 300whp and a bit under 300wtq running 15x9 ULs with 245/40-15 Maxxis RC-1 mostly street driven, will see some track next season. It runs a stock MSM 14mm rear sway bar and an RB 1.125" hollow front bar with reinforcements.

So a few weeks ago my buddy contacts me and lets me know his lightly used Maxxis RC1 are for sale because he was stepping up to 275 Hoosiers for his 15x10 Jongbloeds. For the price, I could not pass them up, especially considering I needed tires and was having a lot of traction problems. In short, I LOVE the tires and traction is MUCH better, but now I have a new issue.

Because these are so stiff and sticky I am getting a ton more body roll. With the RS3 tires, if I flicked the wheel hard the car would just break loose, but with these, holy rollercoaster. I have Tein FLEX coilovers with standard 7kg/6kg springs that have about 10k miles on them, great shape. They do need stiffer springs however.

My debate is, do I source Swift springs for these Teins (buddy who sold me the tires recommends I go to a 10kg/8kg setup) or just source new coilovers all-together. Very big cost difference, and he has the MonoFLEX with 10kg/8kg and seems to like it for street and track.

If replacing, what is out there worth investing in? I know the AFCO and XIDA are top of the crop but are expensive considering I could replace springs for ~$400

If re-springing, what rates, and what lengths of spring for front and rear? Also what diameter spring does the TEIN take?
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Old 09-11-2015, 11:40 AM   #2
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The AFCO are not being sold anymore, if that helps your decision.

The answer is Xidas.
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Old 09-11-2015, 12:38 PM   #3
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I have MonoFlex's sprung at 9k/7k (NA chassis, ~150whp now, Turbo soon-ish).

They're ok, and I have found that magic 'click' where:
1) Feel is good with mild oversteer tendency
2) Minimal body roll
3) My teeth don't fall out on rough Colorado roads.

BUT!

I'm buying Xidas... Because these Teins are good, but not great. When Rebuild time comes I won't be spending the money on these Teins, it'll go right towards Xidas.

Xida master Race.
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Old 09-11-2015, 12:51 PM   #4
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The thing I am having trouble justifying is that the XIDA are almost $2,000 and I can re-spring these for literally 20 cents on the dollar, and the FLEX are not a great coilover, but not bad by any stretch either.

Car is mostly for street, track use will be limited to a few times a year, and for fun, not competition. I am trying to make the most of it by getting the right lengths and rates but unless XIDAs will make my car glued to the road and give me EVO like handling, I can't justify it in my head.

I just need to eliminate some body roll, the car has all kinds of tire grip but doing slalom like manuevers at 60mph literally makes me almost sick to the stomach

I recall seeing somewhere that a 175mm spring in the back is ideal (7" basically) so I know that, do I do 7" or 8" springs up front?
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Old 09-11-2015, 12:58 PM   #5
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EVOs handle like trash.
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Old 09-11-2015, 03:16 PM   #6
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I went from Tein Street Advances to XIDA and its night and day difference. I'd say the 800/500lb setup is even more comfortable than the 7kg/6kg Teins.

If you want to save the money go ahead and respring your Teins to see what you think. Worst case you don't like it and sell the springs again. Otherwise I'll let you drive mine with the XIDAs and you can see what you think
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Old 09-11-2015, 03:58 PM   #7
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You could respring your car for $200 if you weren't hung up on brand names.

http://www.summitracing.com/search/p...rder=Ascending
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Old 09-11-2015, 04:10 PM   #8
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It's not about the brand names really but I am trying to see if I should spend a few hundred, a thousand, or 2. XIDAs get really great reviews but are $2,200. Tein MONO Flex get good reviews too and are around $1,400

For a car that gets driven hard on back roads and just casually moves around town a few miles a year for the rest, is there really $800 worth of difference there? Sure I might do a few track days next year, but my car is too valuable to me to go 10/10 so I don't know if I would get the most out of anything I got. That's why I don't know if I should do it the cheaper way, the good way, or the best way.
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Old 09-11-2015, 04:31 PM   #9
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Another option: Sell your Teins, acquire FEAL 441s.



That said, each post you've made in here sounds like you've already made up your mind to keep the Teins and are just wanting validation. If that's the case, do it and be happy.
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Old 09-11-2015, 05:03 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by concealer404 View Post
Another option: Sell your Teins, acquire FEAL 441s.



That said, each post you've made in here sounds like you've already made up your mind to keep the Teins and are just wanting validation. If that's the case, do it and be happy.
I haven't made up my mind yet. Trying to see if there is a reason to replace. One is that I could still sell my young mile FLEX set and make some money back, not if they're super used later.

I'll look at the FEAL never heard of them before.
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Old 09-11-2015, 06:36 PM   #11
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I vote respring. FRSport stocks the Tein springs. My Mono-flex came with 7" long 7kg/mm & 6kb/mm springs.

I ended up ordering a 6" (by accident) 12kg/mm (672lb/in) pair for the front and moving the 7kg/mm (391lb/in) springs to the rear. That puts me in the ball park for the 700/400 dual duty setup 949 has on their site. I don't have any feedback on handling as the car is still a paperweight at the moment.
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Old 09-11-2015, 06:45 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sixshooter View Post
You could respring your car for $200 if you weren't hung up on brand names.

http://www.summitracing.com/search/p...rder=Ascending
I've read in several obscure places that tien use 70mm coil springs. Here is one real quick.

https://www.miataturbo.net/suspensio...springs-85578/

2.5" = 63.5mm

So, do regular 2.5" springs fit Tiens?

I only ask because I'd consider buying a cheap set and putting a proper spring ratio to them.
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Old 09-11-2015, 10:09 PM   #13
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The Teins do indeed use a 70mm diameter spring. It's been a while since I've had mine off, but I don't think the 2.5 inch springs would fit on the perches properly. I have 12kg front/7kg rears on Mono Flexs and it's a reasonably balanced setup on track. They aren't too bad on the street as long as you reduce the damping rate. Only question would be whether or not the regular Flex front valving would be appropriate for the 12kg rates...

And 6 inch length will work ok as long as you don't go too low with ride height. My experience is that the fronts could use to be 7 inches or the spring is floating at full droop at low ride heights. On the rears, 6 inch springs are fine unless the ride height is high - you run out of thread on the shock body.
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Old 09-13-2015, 11:19 AM   #14
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The new Mono Sports have a wider range of adjustment than the Mono Flex.
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Old 09-26-2015, 09:21 AM   #15
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Another option for used fatcats

These are valved for 600-800lb front and 400-600 rear, included springs are from Fatcat 600f/375r. These shocks also have the rare KBO option which offers more low speed dampening without excessive high speed dampening. So, it controls the car but allows you take the kerbs at the track without upsetting the car. Its really fun, I had an opportunity to try them at a local kart track and I could take ALL the kerb and it didn't move the car off line.

The next part of trick kit are the custom made aluminum top hats for the rear. These increase comfort for driving and help prevent bottoming out on canyon roads. It also means when you make aggressive inputs then accelerate you wont bottom out the rear are cause excessive oversteer as you run though the bump stops.

Probably Biting the bullet tonight. Should make a nice bonus at work to coverit
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Old 09-26-2015, 01:10 PM   #16
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I have several customers who switched from FCMs to XIDAs and they didn't regret spending the money. I have Tein Flex on my '02SE and they are absolutely atrocious - underdamped at low adjustment, insanely harsh at high adjustment, and no nice middle ground anywhere.

Spend the money once, IMO
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Old 09-27-2015, 10:47 PM   #17
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$2000 for used FCM with mystery valving? Why not get a brand new set of Xidas that are proven for a couple hundred more?
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Old 09-28-2015, 09:44 AM   #18
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If I did get XIDAs or something similar, what spring rates would I use?
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Old 09-28-2015, 10:05 AM   #19
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700/400 seems to be the standard rate if not running crazy grip tires (Hoosier A6) or aero
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Old 09-28-2015, 10:24 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slider View Post
700/400 seems to be the standard rate if not running crazy grip tires (Hoosier A6) or aero
That's what I was thinking. Crazy compared to my Teins, which are a 7/6 and the XIDA standard is like a 12/7

I was going to buy new coilovers and not bother re-springing the existing ones but my bonus at work did not work out so I'll be holding off for a while. Maybe there will be a group buy over the winter.

I kind of want to get a set of 15x10 for the 245 maxxis but if I ever go back to 225 wide tires they will just be too big. I don't see that happening, but who knows how long the Maxxis 245 will be in production? Maybe other affordable tires will be made in that size, maybe not. 245 seems kind of obscure but it gives me the grip I need. I hope to keep the car for many many years (another 10+) and I really don't know if 15x9 or 15x10 is a better option for the long haul. Maybe I'll just buy a set of the 10s and keep them and the 9s just in case. Shouldn't be too hard to unload 6ULs lol there I go spending money I don't have
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