Review of Gen 2 XIDA coilovers - Page 2 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


Suspension, Brakes, Drivetrain discuss the wondrous effects of boost and your miata...

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 09-23-2014, 07:23 PM   #21
Senior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,391
Total Cats: 58
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
This is closer than you think
Not complex in theory (or in hardware nowadays) but needs some dedication to make it pay off in results.

Just having electronic adjustments to make the ***** remote is close to pointless.
NiklasFalk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2014, 07:26 PM   #22
Elite Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Leafy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: NH
Posts: 9,091
Total Cats: 90
Default

Something something give a driver too many ***** and he'll screw himself out of a victory something something.
Leafy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2014, 08:43 PM   #23
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (3)
 
emilio700's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 5,311
Total Cats: 1,334
Default

Sub 20ms semi active damping adjustment with accelerometers as part of the control circuit. A long way past stepper motors clicking your ***** for you at 1hz.
emilio700 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2014, 09:46 AM   #24
Senior Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Meridian, Mississippi
Posts: 637
Total Cats: 42
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
Sub 20ms semi active damping adjustment with accelerometers as part of the control circuit. A long way past stepper motors clicking your ***** for you at 1hz.
Shoot, I was hopping it was going to be "Speed Racer" style and we would have a monkey companion in the trunk turning the ***** for us

Looks like this is way over my skill level, but just like the active wing thread I will follow just to see how innovative thinking can lead to great leaps forward in performance!

Keith
Twodoor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2014, 10:25 AM   #25
Senior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,391
Total Cats: 58
Default

20ms means travelling 0.5m at 25m/s, so it's not only one setting per corner, its one setting per curb

I'd still would prefer to setup the characteristics per GPS area in some interface. "Looser here and tighter there" is much easier to comprehend as a driver than tuning black box accelerometer response.

There is of course a damper theory in the background (what physical input should generate what response), but you always have to pay some attention to what the customers can digest.
NiklasFalk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2014, 02:04 PM   #26
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (3)
 
emilio700's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 5,311
Total Cats: 1,334
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Twodoor View Post
Looks like this is way over my skill level, but just like the active wing thread I will follow just to see how innovative thinking can lead to great leaps forward in performance!

Keith
No more than electronic fuel injection is "way over your skill level". There are several different iterations in the planning or prototyping stage including, but not limited to:

-GPS map based tuning for rebound and compression
-Active preload adjustment
-Accelerometer based reactive (pre-programmed response) or semi-active (logic circuit).
-Smartphone UI. Potentially using the accelerometer in the phone. I have seen a video of a test rig with this tech. Friggin awesome.
-Individual damping control. This means potentially bumping compression on the outside damper, tightening rebound on the inside damper or adjust transient cross weights to improve turn in response.

For most users, it would simply be a little box with accelerometer triggered "maps", such as soft, sport, race. Base maps loaded when you buy the kit. You chuck it into a turn and the shocks react before the car has rotated 1. User can increase or decrease damping setting in each mode through the 4 buttons on the little control box.

Advanced users would get a box they could plug a lap top and standalone GPS into. That creates a whole other level of specific handling maps. My guess is that this type of control would only be used by a tiny fraction of users. It would make a typical 4 way adjustable coilover look rudimentary by comparison.

Last edited by emilio700; 10-13-2014 at 03:22 PM.
emilio700 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2014, 02:57 PM   #27
Junior Member
iTrader: (4)
 
calteg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 311
Total Cats: 14
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
No more than electronic fuel injection is "way over your skill level". There are several different iterations in the planning or prototyping stage including, but not limited to:

blahblahblahblah

GPS into. That creates a whole other level of specific handling maps. My guess is that this type of control would only be used by a tiny fraction of users. It would make a typical 4 way adjustable coilover look rudiemntary by comparison.
I, for one, welcome our electronic handling overlords
calteg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2014, 03:03 PM   #28
Senior Member
iTrader: (8)
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Azusa, CA
Posts: 1,376
Total Cats: 80
Default

Sounds like a very neat product to develop. I'm jealous.

Still saving up for gen 2 xidas. Then I guess after I save up enough for that I need to save up more for this electronic active suspension kit. And so begins the exponential money pit.
cyotani is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2014, 03:37 PM   #29
Senior Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Meridian, Mississippi
Posts: 637
Total Cats: 42
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
No more than electronic fuel injection is "way over your skill level". There are several different iterations in the planning or prototyping stage including, but not limited to:


For most users, it would simply be a little box with accelerometer triggered "maps", such as soft, sport, race. Base maps loaded when you buy the kit. You chuck it into a turn and the shocks react before the car has rotated 1. User can increase or decrease damping setting in each mode through the 4 buttons on the little control box.
This does sound about my skill level Now, how much are you thinking from a cost standpoint for this basic setup? If you don't have preliminary cost estimates I understand... just wondering how much I need to start saving

Keith
Twodoor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2014, 03:53 PM   #30
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (3)
 
emilio700's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 5,311
Total Cats: 1,334
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Twodoor View Post
This does sound about my skill level Now, how much are you thinking from a cost standpoint for this basic setup? If you don't have preliminary cost estimates I understand... just wondering how much I need to start saving

Keith
No idea right now.
emilio700 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2014, 01:06 AM   #31
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 160
Total Cats: 2
Default

David my max front camber I can get on my car is 2.8 degrees 99 miata same setup ride height etc.


Being one of the first to get the chance to try these out. I gotta say I'm very happy. I came from 450/325 Bilstein HD setups. Which was okay honestly the ride quality is better with xidas and I have the 800/500 spring setup. Car still needs alignment and corner balance but everything works very well.

I did an autox @ rockford speedway (banked oval) this weekend and this place is rough asphalt cracks everywhere. The FTD was 35.5 1.8 Na miata (guy is a great driver.) My best time was 36.4. My car is not well sorted all, needs tune, corner balance, realignment. I started at full soft and by the end of the day I was 18 - 14 ish settings. Everytime I turned the ***** I went faster just ran out of runs for the day. Can't wait to go back and get Fastest Time of the Day.

BTW chicago people run an event at rockford it's hands down one of the best events i've done all year along with WMHM. Banked ovals are tons of fun
natedawg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2014, 02:33 AM   #32
Senior Member
iTrader: (8)
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 581
Total Cats: 4
Default

I tried mine (800/500 Xida-S II) few laps at my home track who's bouncy as hell and didn't feel all the imperfection from 8 differents pavements so that was great, car is never upset and is previsible. Too bad the built engine seized this day after those few laps...

Was to a new track last weekend, almost a kart track. Pretty small and narrow, track isn't finish either so nothing past the track, 3 to 6 inches drop into the dirt and with a car 4 inches high, ouchhhy.

I was using a spare engine (VVT) and tried to baby the car and play with the suspension (learn). Never ever run these on full soft on track, tire don't work and don't heat. Well not in cold morning. Then I tried different front setup by turning the ****, more I was turning, more fun and confidence. Too bad I lost an alternator bracket bolt because they we're 2-3 sessions left and time we're improving. I left some on the table to preserve the engine...

Car was litterally on track, rebound is where the setup is much better then my old JIC magic set. Really like the helpers too, make the road so flat. Can't wait to return... in more then 6 months :-(

Video from Montmagny testing Xida-S II

Last edited by joyrider; 09-28-2014 at 11:38 AM. Reason: adding video
joyrider is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2014, 02:55 PM   #33
Senior Member
iTrader: (8)
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 617
Total Cats: 53
Default

My take:

This summer I acquired some gen 2s with 550/350 springs. Currently the car has 195 S. Drives on 15x7, ~4.75" at the pinch weld, and dual duty alignment.

What impresses me most is their range of damping adjustability. At full soft (20 clicks, CCW) they are pretty floppy which has pros and cons. Bumps are smoothly mitigated although it doesn't feel stabilized enough when you're on respectable surfaces or making any sudden transitions, especially on/off throttle rocking. The softest I go now is 2 or 3 from full soft, which have about as much comfort as full but don't let the suspension move so much with speed bumps, sudden braking, etc.

I keep it at 4-5 clicks from full soft unless I'm expecting crap roads. That is a good setting for my sporty DDing, retaining a large fraction the comfort component and the awesome handling characteristics which is why you should be buying these over tecnas. On-ramps that I used to take between 40-50 mph with limited confidence are now stable at about 60. My click settings will likely move further from soft with higher performance tires which I really want now.

The highest I've bothered to try is 10 clicks from full soft. It didn't seem to bring any more handling to the table than 6-7 did for my grip levels. It brought out more harshness from road imperfections obviously but it is crazy how level the car stays under braking and any weight transitions. Front to back rocking with sudden, poorly tuned throttle on/off fluctuations is virtually nonexistent even when trying to exacerbate it. Total opposite of 10 clicks softer and there are still 10 more clicks to go!

Overall I love them and don't have buyers guilt on whether I've correctly compromised for comfort vs performance. I can just go twist le **** to get one or the other.
petrolmed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2015, 11:53 AM   #34
Senior Member
iTrader: (8)
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Azusa, CA
Posts: 1,376
Total Cats: 80
Default

Does anyone have front suspension travel data for a xida 700/400 setup using Lin Pots?

I am mounting tire temps sensors directly above the front wheels and want to know how much clearance I need to not have any contact.

Or total front travel from a 4.5" ish pinch weld height to bump stop.
cyotani is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2015, 11:58 AM   #35
Elite Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Leafy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: NH
Posts: 9,091
Total Cats: 90
Default

Properly setup you will just barely rub the top of the tire on the chassis. Best bet is to plan on mounting them in the lower quadrant of the tire in either the front or back. Back is easier for mounting but get hit by more debris.
Leafy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2015, 12:06 PM   #36
Senior Member
iTrader: (8)
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Azusa, CA
Posts: 1,376
Total Cats: 80
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafy View Post
Properly setup you will just barely rub the top of the tire on the chassis. Best bet is to plan on mounting them in the lower quadrant of the tire in either the front or back. Back is easier for mounting but get hit by more debris.
I saw some minor tire marks on the upper fender well but I wasn't sure which of the 4 suspension set ups I've used on the car caused them.

Brackets for these things have been a head ache. The first attempt was at the 3 o'clock position (looking at the front left tire) but I had clearance issues with the fender. I then moved it to the 5 o'clock position just below the fender but it contacted the LCA. It would need 4 or 5 bends to snake it around all the obstetrical and have full steering motion.

I think I might go back to the 3 o'clock position and do the aero fender cut mod to alleviate the fender clearance issue.
cyotani is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2015, 12:09 PM   #37
Elite Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Leafy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: NH
Posts: 9,091
Total Cats: 90
Default

At least with the 275s 3 oclock would hit the fire wall even without fenders on the car. 8 oclock might be better. Could probably just use the nut from the tie rod and then 1 extra tapped hole to attach it to the spindle.
Leafy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2015, 12:27 PM   #38
Senior Member
iTrader: (8)
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Azusa, CA
Posts: 1,376
Total Cats: 80
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafy View Post
At least with the 275s 3 oclock would hit the fire wall even without fenders on the car. 8 oclock might be better. Could probably just use the nut from the tie rod and then 1 extra tapped hole to attach it to the spindle.
I'll give the front side another look. The original brackets used caliper bracket points which made it more convenient to orient it out toward the rear. with a 225/45r15 I should have clearance with a 1.5" air gap between tire and sensors which is what I was going for.
cyotani is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2015, 01:20 PM   #39
Elite Member
 
Chiburbian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Gilberts, IL
Posts: 2,158
Total Cats: 131
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafy View Post
Properly setup you will just barely rub the top of the tire on the chassis.
On a related note - where on the chassis should I expect this rub? Does this mean I have to remove fender liners? I remember this warning from previous reading but I thought it did not require removing fender liners. Thanks.
Chiburbian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2015, 01:31 PM   #40
Elite Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Leafy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: NH
Posts: 9,091
Total Cats: 90
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiburbian View Post
On a related note - where on the chassis should I expect this rub? Does this mean I have to remove fender liners? I remember this warning from previous reading but I thought it did not require removing fender liners. Thanks.
225 Street tires, as received from 949, assuming the same dimensions as gen 1 with the nb mounts it rubbed on the fender liners in some spots but did not tear them out. Once the liners are out and you're either running bigger rubber than that or adjusting the bump stop length to something different than as delivered you get into rubbing directly above the tire, on the shock mount itself, and on chassis right in front of the shock mount when the car is loaded up in a turn, and 275 15x10 only you have to hammer the fire wall pinch weld and trim the bumper for clearance.
Leafy is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New M62 Miata owner Pist0n Meet and Greet 4 10-01-2015 09:18 PM
WTB: Megan EZ street coilovers Rhidell WTB 1 09-26-2015 05:27 PM
Koni 1150 Coilover Kit drumman83 Suspension, Brakes, Drivetrain 2 09-25-2015 08:03 PM


Tags
k24 miata, xida

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:16 AM.