oreo

I'm hoping someone can give me an idea what is going wrong with my hub install.

Everything went well, until I tightened the axle nut the last turn. When I did this, I was unable to turn either wheel.

If I remove the wheel seal, I can tighten the axle nut and the wheel still turns.
So the seal is contacting the axle itself. (the seal is not in backwards and the bearing is in with it's snap ring in place)
Not sure what is causing this.

Some pictures, but it is hard to capture




The last picture shows the space from the hub, to the axle. Hard to see and measure, but it is nearly touching.

I was considering making a couple of spacers to push the axle back, maybe .1" or so. Is that a good idea?
Any suggestions would be appreciated.

oreo

Reflecting on this, I think there must be an incompatibility between the knuckles on the car (1-NA, and 1-NB) and the axles(MSM).
The axles were installed at the same time as the hubs.
I don't think the hubs are any of this problem.

themonkeyman

Did you install the prescribed 1mm spacer between the bearing and the hub when pressing the two together? Axles and knuckles are interchangeable.

oreo

I recall this spacer being glued on when I received the hubs. Unfortunately I didn't check again during installation.

Having said that, I believe this spacer just positions the hub correctly to line up with the brakes.
I just re-read one of the original threads on this. Post 108 says "1 washer/shim needed per hub to space hub from bearing race in spindle for proper rotor alignment with caliper and pads"

I'm stumped on what is causing this. I need to take this apart again, and do some measurements.

apexanimal

are you SURE that seal is not on backwards? like really sure?

because what you are describing is exactly what happened to me... when my seal was installed backwards...

boileralum

iTrader: (8)

Seal looks backwards, pretty sure that groove should be on the bearing side vs axle side, otherwise junk/ dirt is going to build up in there

oreo

Good suggestion, but my seal will only go on one way. The orange metal part is pressed into the knuckle until fully seated. Installing it the other way means it won't stay in, and there will be 4mm
of metal sticking out.

tomrev

Damn, I thought you had the solution!

hi_im_sean

iTrader: (3)

Orange part indeed faces in, looks like the correct seal. 1mm spacer was glued on the back, and wouldn't cause this problem regardless. The bearing determines where the axle ends up, axially, and is the same regardless of what hub is used.

Im confounded.

Just to grab at straws, is the seal flange actually seated, or is it bottoming prior?

oreo

Good question Sean. Pretty sure the metal part of the seal was flush with the surface of the knuckle, but maybe it needs to be in further than that.

I am planning on pulling this apart tomorrow to figure it out.

thanks for the input!

oreo

Well, can't figure out what is wrong. The seal is not fitting the axle.
I first wire brushed the knuckle where the seal seats, as well as the axle.

After seal installation, I measured from the bearing to the outside edge of the seal =.35"




looking at my old axles, this works plenty fine.


But you can see that this does not work for the axles I am using, as the axle is tapering to a larger diameter, where the seal wants to sit.


It starts getting difficult to turn the wheel when I have 1/2 turn left on the nut. This is what it looks like, with 1/4 turn left on the nut.


So the rubber seal is folded over against the metal part of the seal. Not sure exactly what this is supposed to look like, and so far have been unable to find a pic on the internet. I would have expected there would be maybe .1" space from the rubber part of the seal, and the orange part of the seal. Right now it's 0". I could cut off this outer part of the seal and try it, but I feel the inner part is going to fail because it is not positioned correctly.

oreo

Just noticed that this axle is made by NTN, which had me concerned, however the original axle is also NTN.

tomrev

Small comfort, but at least you'v figured out why things are not working. I'v been following your thread because I will be swapping to the MSM diff and axles this Winter, and may also run into this issue. Seems like it's a common enough swap that many members have run into this, so I'm a bit puzzled that there is no response from others?

hi_im_sean

iTrader: (3)

I can't recall ever seeing an axle with a taper like that, only stepped like youre previous one.

Did that axle work with the prior hub/seal/bearing combo?

tomrev

I just looked at the set I have, also the MSM's, and they are the same as yours, with the big taper, so I will have the same problem! Mine are from a 2005.

Ted75zcar

iTrader: (2)

@patsmx5

patsmx5

iTrader: (16)

Wrong seals, need MSM seals. I've done this before, same problem.

Pic of my MSM diff seals. Note they are smaller, and tapered to match the taper of the axle. Not best pic, but all I could find.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/152473...8/37253577761/


Also see this pic, left is stock axle, middle is MSM, right is boss mode axles.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...psxefs3iro.jpg

Edited for labeling axles wrong.

oreo

Thanks Pat. Your link to the seal pic does not seem to work for me, but I get it.
Did you end up buying these from the dealer?

Sean -I installed the MSM axles at the same time as the hubs.

patsmx5

iTrader: (16)

Yeah, for MSM you don't have a choice, if you go to autozone, they sell you the axles/seals for a regular miata.

patsmx5

iTrader: (16)