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Old 06-17-2008, 09:51 AM   #1
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Default So I got some Konis--Now what

Suspension NOOOB here

What do I need with Koni Sports?

Option 1 is to slap on my existing Eibach springs, get some better bump stops, and call it a day. For cheap. And I can do this immediately.

Option 2 is to get Ground Control coilovers, and new bump stops. This can't be done until after my engine is built.

Option 3 is what the wise people from teh internets tell me what to do.

Option A is to get FM rear shock mounts, and can be added to any of the above. I also see talk of using NB top mounts in the rear to gain 1" of shock travel. What are the drawbacks?

School me.
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Old 06-17-2008, 10:25 AM   #2
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Go with option 1 until after you've built the motor, then reevaluate. However, be careful with using the Konis with those existing Eibachs and new bumpstops...you may have too much bump travel available. I recall Shaikh talking about the Konis bottoming out before running out of bump travel, and recommending some bumpstop spacers perhaps? Perhaps that was with his older bumpstops...he may have something a tad longer in his newer line-up. Might be wise to give him a call at FCM anyway and talk options.
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Old 06-17-2008, 10:28 AM   #3
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1/2 inch more travel with the NB tophats that are not as easy as just bolting them up.

Since you can do #1 immediately, and you would use the bumpstops for the GC's later anyways, go with #1 and save for #2.
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Old 06-17-2008, 10:36 AM   #4
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Ben, good call on the Konis.

I wouldn't even instal them until you get the GC's and ISC rear mounts (forget NB).
Do it once and do it right, hell I know you got the patience to wait. Once you have everything, swap it out and go straight to someone who can corner-weight your car.
Any idea what spring rates you would go with?

You already have FM sways right? I can't remember if it was FM or RB....
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Old 06-17-2008, 10:37 AM   #5
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Damn I swore we had a section for this type of stuff.
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Old 06-17-2008, 10:48 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zabac View Post
Ben, good call on the Konis.

I wouldn't even instal them until you get the GC's and ISC rear mounts (forget NB).
Do it once and do it right, hell I know you got the patience to wait. Once you have everything, swap it out and go straight to someone who can corner-weight your car.
Any idea what spring rates you would go with?

You already have FM sways right? I can't remember if it was FM or RB....
Link to mounts please.
I have FM NA 1.8 sways in my garage. I've had them for at least a year, un installed. I've been considering selling them (just never got around to it) in favor of a RB tubular front.

Quote:
Originally Posted by reddroptop View Post
1/2 inch more travel with the NB tophats that are not as easy as just bolting them up.

Since you can do #1 immediately, and you would use the bumpstops for the GC's later anyways, go with #1 and save for #2.
I like the reasoning. What's the problem/issue with the NB hats?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlanta93LE View Post
Go with option 1 until after you've built the motor, then reevaluate. However, be careful with using the Konis with those existing Eibachs and new bumpstops...you may have too much bump travel available. I recall Shaikh talking about the Konis bottoming out before running out of bump travel, and recommending some bumpstop spacers perhaps? Perhaps that was with his older bumpstops...he may have something a tad longer in his newer line-up. Might be wise to give him a call at FCM anyway and talk options.
Thanks, this is on the lines of what I was thinking. I appreciate the head's up on the travel issue.

Thanks for the help.
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Old 06-17-2008, 10:56 AM   #7
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http://www.iscracing.net/Miata_suspension.htm

Just get the rear ones at 1.5" which is their standard.

I can't really say much about the FM bars, but I love my RB hollow bar, so I have to support the RB hollow bar choice (and the sway bar brace kit kicks ***). When you decide what spring rates you want to run let me know, and I'll try to help you out with the proper rear bar for your spring rates.

Besides-you will have no issues selling the FM sways to someone over at Mnet in no time. If you are buying a new RB, talking to Brian at goodwin directly will save you some money, great guy.
Good luck man, suspension is the best thing I've ever done to my car.
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Old 06-17-2008, 10:56 AM   #8
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http://clubroadster.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11373

Yes, it is CR.net, but there is some good info there in that thread and what is linked to. Just gotta sift through the noise.
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Old 06-17-2008, 11:06 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zabac View Post
ISC rear mounts (forget NB).
Shaikh has some kind advise against using a mount like the ISC, IIRC, and I don't attribute all of it to wanting to sell his own product. Basically, the ISC, while increasing travel, doesn't help in the other area the NB mount does, which helps isolate the transverse spring motion from the transverse shock motion. There is a scan of the factory test data between NA and NB on FCM site. If you want to diy, fitting NB mounts to Koni shocks is doable, just search m.net.

IIRC, Rob did something with his NA mounts to increase travel as well, but also doesn't address the above issue.

If the aim is for simply more travel, sure,go with ISC. If the aim is to have slightly more predictable and proper control, something along the lines of an NB mount of the FM rear mounts may be what you're after.

Tons of info on this at m.net. I think I read literally thousands of threads before finally going down the path I did.
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Old 06-17-2008, 11:06 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reddroptop View Post
http://clubroadster.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11373

Yes, it is CR.net, but there is some good info there in that thread and what is linked to. Just gotta sift through the noise.
This is what I don't get
Quote:
its doesnt increase travel... its the same amount of shock travel at a lower height.
I'm kind of worried that this would result in a way too low car (without coil overs I mean)
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Old 06-17-2008, 11:26 AM   #11
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The NB mounts just raises the upper spring perch. You wont gain travel, but you will get about 3/4 inch lower without loosing any travel.

I'd verify that your bump stops are long enough, and slap them on. You'll know what your ride height is, and you can worry about mounts later.
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Old 06-17-2008, 11:37 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben View Post
I'm kind of worried that this would result in a way too low car (without coil overs I mean)
Exactly as stealth said, this is what they do. To low or not is dependent on you.

I think the no gain travel argument is bs, if you were going to drop that low or lower (and everyone is, unless you are a m.netter) you have effectively gained travel from what you would have lost by lowering to that height without them.

That said, I have coilover sleeves, so if I don't like the height, it is far easier for me to raise the height then for someone without.
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Old 06-17-2008, 11:43 AM   #13
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I've been reading thru m.net. I liked this guy's advice

Quote:
if you want to save some dough, skip the $400 GC and either order a set of Koni threaded sleeves (~$100) and pick your own springs, or order a set of generic sleeves from an eBay vendor and buy the springs elsewhere (toss the cheapo springs that come w/ the eBay kit). there are plenty of used springs available on various forums, or plenty of places to buy new. a new pair might cost $80; you can usually pick up used sets for ~$40-$60/pair.

when you install a threaded sleeve/Koni setup, you're going to need new top mounts, or you'll need to drill out the holes in your OE NA mounts (the OE mounts have 10mm holes for the shock shaft; the Konis are 12mm). the cheapest thing is to convert a set of NB mounts. there is a thread in this forum about doing it; it's easy, and should cost you ~$50 for everything you need. otherwise, you could order a set of mounts from fat cat motorsports, which will run a touch over $200. you'll probably also need new bumpstops, since the OE mounts have integrated bumpstops. order a set from fat cat (which can be ordered as a package w/ the top mounts), or just buy a set of cheaper generic stops.

with all this (shocks, sleeves, springs, bumps, top mounts), everything can be assembled off the car and swapped in as a package.
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Old 06-17-2008, 11:47 AM   #14
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Shaikh's comment has merit in theory. I posted something about this in Dan's shiny tein shock hat with the spherical bearing. In theory the entire shock assembly (shock, spring, perches) needs to move as a unit. There is some lateral motion as the control arms compress. BUT in practice, that curved movement is so small that it has a negligible effect on the actually seating of the spring. This is why so many have gotten away with running these solid hats. Both the NA and NB mounts suspend the top shock rod mount to allow this motion in the assembly - as well as isolate road noise.

I've been running the ISC mounts on the rear of my street car since Xmas and I can't tell they're there except for the fact that I'm not nailing my bump stops on hard hits. And like I said before- we raced on them and they did wonders for suspension travel, never failed and had no ill effects on handling. ISC proved that on both there SCCA Miatas - setting blistering laps in two classes. They don't sell **** that doesn't work.

Here's some pics of a proper Miata coil over setup. Notice how the upper perch is NOT part of the upper assembly chassis mount. The mount stays fixed and the rest of the parts move as a single unit where ever they need to. How does this work w/o adding some room at the top of the hat for travel? Easy, you size the shock to fit the ride hide/application.





Sticking a spherical bearing in the top of a solid hat for shock rod mount really does little or nothing. Below is the diy approach to achieve some additional travel, like the ISC mounts, just not as much. Burn out the suspension bushing on a stock mount and weld the two pieces together. That's good for another 3/4".
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Old 06-17-2008, 11:58 AM   #15
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Who makes that coilover Rob?
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Old 06-17-2008, 12:01 PM   #16
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go with option #1 and be happy for awhile
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Old 06-17-2008, 12:33 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doppelgänger View Post
go with option #1 and be happy for awhile
Do you have a rec on bumpstops?
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Old 06-17-2008, 12:38 PM   #18
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It was built custom (using some bilstein parts) by Shocktek for our NB we ran in motorola/grandam cup. Unfortunately Shocktek wasn't run as a business to the same caliber as their engineering. That said- these parts exist from race suspension shops. But I have a feeling they're more than what most would be willing to pay for a suspension on a Miata- and they're overkill for a street car IMO... but then I'm running the ISC pieces.

Ultimately I want to build my own custom setup using circle track shocks. These shocks are a steel compared to what the aftermarket feeds IF you have the ability to do some fab work. You can get an threaded aluminum body shock, spherical bearings on both ends, and spring perches for <$200 per corner. And you can invert mount them so the rod is the unsprung weight. The rod mount to the lower control arm is just a matter of spacers for bearing (and maybe bolt sizing). Up top you can remove the center section of the NA mount and build a center based on that- it'll just bolt right in to the chassis mount. Easy!

Check out the goodies here

I agree- #1 and call Shaikh for the bumps so you get the best for the application.
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Old 06-17-2008, 12:44 PM   #19
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http://randysracemart.com/smalbodalthe.html

is this what your talking about? wow
$10 for custom valving!!! Custom length...damn!
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Old 06-17-2008, 02:24 PM   #20
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I know. It would take some work, but IF you did it right, you would have suspension PRIDE like nobody in the diy miata suspension universe.

Lots of other cool stuff there too. That's where I got my killer rad for $220.
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