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Old 11-01-2009, 07:43 PM   #1
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Default SoCal Pepsi Challenge - NB depowered rack?

I'm leaning toward depowering the rack in my '99, but a buddy who has done it previously says it sucks in a street car. I want to try it out without having to buy parts to reverse it if I don't like it. The '99 rack has hard lines from the input shaft valve body to the servo on the rack itself, so there's no way to just "loop the lines" like you can on a '96 and earlier car without cutting something.

Anyone in the LA or OC area with a depowered '99-05 street car who would be willing to let me go for a spin and see what it feels like?
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Old 11-14-2009, 09:10 PM   #2
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Default The verdict

I went ahead and depowered it last weekend. Looped the lines. With the alignment as it was, it was almost undriveable. Today, I minned out the caster adjustment, and it's actually kinda okay around town. Still annoying in parking lots.

Whether this makes sense depends on where and how you drive. I took it up Azusa Canyon and, yes, the improved steering communication was awesome, and the effort was acceptable.

Then I did GMR from the North Fork to the Y and the bottom in Glendora. The effortlessness that makes the car so magic on that road was gone. The extra work of steering it eventually chewed away at my attention level so that I wasn't able to pay attention to all the other things you need to do, and wasn't going as fast as I normally would.

For 20-minute sessions on a fast track, a depowered rack would probably be fine. For SM, the two or three hp the pump sucks are necessary, so you do what you have to. For me, on the roads I want to drive, I'm going to keep power steering.

Hope this helps some people.

Now, does anybody have the hard lines from the P/S valve body to the rack from one they've depowered and are going to keep that way? I need new ones. :(
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Old 11-14-2009, 09:43 PM   #3
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Wow, reaally? You must be a *****, hope Hustler doesn't notice this thread. Never had an issue with de-powered racks and definitely driven my share...I'm a 5'9 125 pounder too

Did you leave fluid in the rack or let it all drain before looping the lines?
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Old 11-14-2009, 09:58 PM   #4
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How is your alignment?
What offset wheels are you using?

It shouldnt be that bad to have manual steering, unless you have some weird alignment or very low offset wheels
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Old 11-14-2009, 10:25 PM   #5
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Anyone is welcome to call me anything, as long as they are still willing to say it up close and in person. Let's just say I'm twice the man you are, KPLAFIN.

All the fluid is out. As I said, it sucked with caster. I adjusted out all the caster the stock adjusters would allow today, and it's pretty driveable generally. If I was just going to be street hooligan with boost, it would be fine. Under some circumstances, it's actually bitchin'. I'd probably really, really like it in Bus Stop and Talladega, or the whole track at Laguna. But on roads that are like Off-ramp, Cotton Corners and Star Mazda strung together continuously with no straights in between for 15 miles, it starts to suck.

I have 15x7.5 +40 et Rotas with 205/50-15 RT615s.
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Old 11-14-2009, 10:39 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SolarYellow510 View Post
Anyone is welcome to call me anything, as long as they are still willing to say it up close and in person. Let's just say I'm twice the man you are, KPLAFIN.
You haven't payed much attention around here if you're this sensitive about ****...STFU...I'm not even getting into the "twice the man you are" comment, ------.
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Old 11-14-2009, 10:57 PM   #7
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...I'm a 5'9 125 pounder too
Well, I guess that "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy is still in effect.
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Old 11-14-2009, 10:58 PM   #8
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I laugh at Hustler, which seems to be the point. I'm just sayin', I'm 250 lbs. Which is exactly twice the man you claimed to be. I think you're the sensitive one, here.
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Old 11-14-2009, 11:23 PM   #9
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The homo-eroticism in this thread is palpable.
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Old 11-14-2009, 11:32 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SolarYellow510 View Post
I laugh at Hustler, which seems to be the point. I'm just sayin', I'm 250 lbs. Which is exactly twice the man you claimed to be. I think you're the sensitive one, here.
Fair enough....but you seem to think size is all that really matters..it's not, besides, you're the one who can't drive your car w/o PS

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The homo-eroticism in this thread is palpable.
Ypu do realize you're logged into a Miata forum, correct?
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Old 11-15-2009, 12:05 AM   #11
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The homo-eroticism in this thread is palpable.
Germany or Florida...
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Old 11-15-2009, 03:46 PM   #12
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You must be a woman.

I'm all of 6'2" 175lbs, and my depowered rack is just fine for driving around town and navigating parking lots. My wheels definitely don't scream ease of turning either.

I love it, and won't be going back. If anything I might be taking it apart to get rid of the seals to make it even better.
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Old 11-15-2009, 03:53 PM   #13
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You must be a woman.

I'm all of 6'2" 175lbs, and my depowered rack is just fine for driving around town and navigating parking lots. My wheels definitely don't scream ease of turning either.

I love it, and won't be going back. If anything I might be taking it apart to get rid of the seals to make it even better.
Hey be careful what you say here, he's like 1.43 times the man you are....
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Old 12-19-2009, 10:07 PM   #14
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Just to complete this, I did the same run today with the power steering back in the the car, and the verdict is the same. I was actually disappointed on the road with the big, fast sweepers, but on the road where it's a dance, I was glad to have it.

Found the right settings for my Konis to go with the MSM springs, too.

Diggin' the car right now.

If I ever build a strictly track car, I'll probably play around a little more, maybe get a real manual rack with the slower ratio and compare it to a depowered one.
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Old 12-20-2009, 12:40 AM   #15
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Steering effort on the depowered rack is much greater than on the manual rack. The manual rack is a teensy bit slow compared to the power rack, but I find it to be my favorite by far. The NB manual rack is hard to find, but almost magical. You should try one; you're bound to like it.
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Old 12-20-2009, 01:01 AM   #16
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Only reason I didn't like it was that it made bump steer much more noticable. I haven't had time to fix it with all my turbo/overheating issues. For now I get bounced around a bunch.
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Old 12-20-2009, 01:27 AM   #17
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One other thing to keep in mind is that a "full depower" is much less effort than and "looped line" depower. You actually disassemble the rack and cut out the seals that are now dragging in the tube. I did one for the locost and it isn't that hard.

Full directions with pics on the Flyin Miata site.

Flyin' Miata : Tech: 1.8 conversion

The manual rack is about 10% slower than the power rack.
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Old 12-20-2009, 05:16 AM   #18
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Has anyone done the Pepsi Challenge on NA vs NB depowered rack? As is I'm planning to drop a NB subframe in the front of my car with a properly depowered rack, but I'd like to hear if anyone here has compared the two.
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Old 12-20-2009, 10:05 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nagase View Post
Has anyone done the Pepsi Challenge on NA vs NB depowered rack? As is I'm planning to drop a NB subframe in the front of my car with a properly depowered rack, but I'd like to hear if anyone here has compared the two.
I'm interested in this as well. I've been thinking about depowering my NB rack but I don't want to do something I'll regret.
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