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Sudden lost of power at wheels

 
Old 04-23-2018, 05:17 PM
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Default Sudden lost of power at wheels

Hi everybody,
​​​when accelerating hard on the full rev range, i have between 5000rpm and 5500rpm, a total lost of power at the wheel (@6lbs). My rev go straight from this point to 7000rpm in 1/4 of a second (until i have time to re-engage the clutch and release throttle). My gear lever stay in gear (as well as my gear ). I first tought my clutch was worn and/or cant handle the power (i saw on this forum that i'm on the limit and that it could happen) and was slipping.
I talked to a friend today and he says a smell of burn clutch should occur for sure if the clutch where slipping and there is absolutely NO SMELL.
i saw that "burned" clutch fluids and/or low level clutch fluids could provoke this (the opposite is said on another one). I did it and no effect at this time (only few miles done so maybe i need to wait).
i saw that input shaft seals could leak on the clutch and cause this kind of slippage, also a floating of the diaphragm. Somes are talking about physical adjusting of the pedal (helper spring or other).

from your expertise : is it possible for my clutch to slip without odor or noise? Do you have an idea related to our miatas historics?

thanks again. Love this forum and my miata.
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Old 04-23-2018, 05:22 PM
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I don't think lack of smell or noise is necessary. I know noise is not present (from what I've experienced) during clutch slip, it just revs up very quick. I can't comment on smell, because I don't have a sense of smell :( You have all the evidence that your clutch isn't up to the task.
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Old 04-23-2018, 07:14 PM
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Revs increase suddenly without forward acceleration then it's the clutch, can't be anything else.
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Old 04-23-2018, 07:17 PM
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There doesn't need to be a clutch burning smell since you aren't slipping the clutch for very long. I had similar issues when the CAS was dripping onto the bell-housing. Think about it, if the car is increasing in revs and not going faster, either the clutch or tires are slipping. Are you on the stock clutch?
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Old 04-23-2018, 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by moocow View Post
There doesn't need to be a clutch burning smell since you aren't slipping the clutch for very long. I had similar issues when the CAS was dripping onto the bell-housing. Think about it, if the car is increasing in revs and not going faster, either the clutch or tires are slipping. Are you on the stock clutch?
Yes i am (and maybe 1991 one!).Ok so you all think the smell is not there all the time with slipping so i ll change the clutch asap.
flyin miata one are out of budget with import charges and shipping. I could get a stage 2 "ilmotorsport" organic one for a descent price.
​​what do you think?it s a good option? "they say" nearly smooth as stock and applicable for boosted application, rallyx, track... etc
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Old 04-23-2018, 08:01 PM
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https://www.ilmotorsport.de/shop/article_detail.php5?aid=5943&oid=1&depth=0&page=1& count=53&PHPSESSID=c2d16d8f177d5c0b6bd3a1e0538a9b2 e

^^^ You're asking about that clutch?

It's only rated to 185 Nm. It's not going to hold any more power than a stock clutch. I see no mention of it being suitable for a boosted application.
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Old 04-24-2018, 03:08 AM
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Originally Posted by SpartanSV View Post
https://www.ilmotorsport.de/shop/art...d3a1e0538a9b2e

^^^ You're asking about that clutch?

It's only rated to 185 Nm. It's not going to hold any more power than a stock clutch. I see no mention of it being suitable for a boosted application.
yes if you put the page in english you'll see this: "
This sport clutch is rated for daily driving, autocross, trackdays and boosted applications, pedal feel will be slightly stiffer but almost not noticeable". I send them a mail they said 185nm is a very conservative value and it vould handle more... what do you think? Bad idea?
ps link to the english description:

https://www.ilmotorsport.de/shop/article_detail.php5?aid=6023&oid=1717&depth=3&page =0&count=6&PHPSESSID=76647d7852a611e5d67dd494b24b0 fed
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Old 04-24-2018, 03:42 AM
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It's slipping and they won't warranty it. Clutches never get warrantied on modified applications. Ever.

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Old 04-24-2018, 05:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Lol256 View Post
yes if you put the page in english you'll see this: "
This sport clutch is rated for daily driving, autocross, trackdays and boosted applications, pedal feel will be slightly stiffer but almost not noticeable". I send them a mail they said 185nm is a very conservative value and it vould handle more... what do you think? Bad idea?
ps link to the english description:

https://www.ilmotorsport.de/shop/art...7dd494b24b0fed
If they were confident it would handle more it would be rated that way.

185 Nm is 136 ft/lbs. For comparison, a flyin miata level 1 is rated for 318 ft/lbs.

The absolute mildest of boosted miatas will make more than that clutch is rated for. That company claiming that clutch is suitable for a boosted application is utter bullshit. Run far far away from them.
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Old 04-24-2018, 06:47 AM
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Originally Posted by SpartanSV View Post
If they were confident it would handle more it would be rated that way.

185 Nm is 136 ft/lbs. For comparison, a flyin miata level 1 is rated for 318 ft/lbs.

The absolute mildest of boosted miatas will make more than that clutch is rated for. That company claiming that clutch is suitable for a boosted application is utter bullshit. Run far far away from them.
Ok but it seems fm clutch is rated at the clutch and there, it is at the wheels! I read that exedy stage 2 is quoted 297 but only 189ft/lb at the wheels (so like 30% more than the famous il motorsport stage 2 and this one seems to keep up on pretty high boost). Exedy stage 1 is only 150lb/ft (200nm) and this forum prove that it handle low boost application. No??? I m just trying to be sure that i could not buy this one because it s less than half the price of any alternative.
so finally i m looking an answer to one of these two questions: how much wheel torque have a low boost miata (red injectors, IC, 7psi boost)? How much clutch torque can handle a 185wheeltorque capable clutch?
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Old 04-24-2018, 07:16 AM
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the clutch holds your ENGINE torque. even a low boost 1.6 makes 200nm at the crank

the il motorsport clutch is just a stock replacement in my eyes and you want something beefier.
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Old 04-24-2018, 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by der_vierte View Post
the clutch holds your ENGINE torque. even a low boost 1.6 makes 200nm at the crank

the il motorsport clutch is just a stock replacement in my eyes and you want something beefier.
ok thx!!!
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Old 04-24-2018, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Lol256 View Post
ok thx!!!
Competition clutch stage 2 are a bit more available in Europe and should be able to hold your torque levels.
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Old 04-24-2018, 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Skamba View Post
Competition clutch stage 2 are a bit more available in Europe and should be able to hold your torque levels.
yes or i saw that 6 pok are not so unusable (i am used to old 911+ 512tr that on/off as hell) i ll not city cruise anytime.
I said this because i saw stage 2 (from my understandment we are talking about kevlar type clutch) seems to fail (dont support any heating) and also have heat issues in themselves. So why not stage 3 ceramic?
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Old 04-24-2018, 07:55 PM
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I wouldn't try to cut corners on a clutch. Doing the job twice or even worse paying to have it done twice will really suck. This is a buy once cry once sort of deal. I would go with a FM level 1 or 2 depending on your power goals.
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Old 04-25-2018, 03:49 AM
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Originally Posted by cnano8 View Post
I wouldn't try to cut corners on a clutch. Doing the job twice or even worse paying to have it done twice will really suck. This is a buy once cry once sort of deal. I would go with a FM level 1 or 2 depending on your power goals.
YES i know it s THE must have, but 1000$ is the price of all my turbo setup and the price of my car too! My wife would love to see it goldplated too as well as all she own bit i ll stick with some grease!

i bought a cheap 6puk (clutchxperts) and we will se whats happen! I know it rough but i m not using it on the city nor traffickjam.
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Old 05-08-2018, 10:02 AM
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I received many mails from ilmotorsport from their technician... this person effectively told me that boost application was too much (despite what they mention on the description). They told me that there is on final process of developping a clutch specially for turbo miata that will accept HIGH torque with organic clutch. I already bought a 6puck but maybe it could help somebody somewhere (same taxes and fees problems)
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Old 05-08-2018, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Lol256 View Post
I received many mails from ilmotorsport from their technician... this person effectively told me that boost application was too much (despite what they mention on the description). They told me that there is on final process of developping a clutch specially for turbo miata that will accept HIGH torque with organic clutch. I already bought a 6puck but maybe it could help somebody somewhere (same taxes and fees problems)
Well, their description does mention it's 185 Nm at the crank. Which is not that much. Not sure why you think their description is different from what the technician is saying.
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Old 05-08-2018, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Skamba View Post
Well, their description does mention it's 185 Nm at the crank. Which is not that much. Not sure why you think their description is different from what the technician is saying.
yes for the 185nm but see on description: "This sport clutch is rated for daily driving, autocross, trackdays and boosted applications".
I don t advertise anything i ll not even buy it... just in case it could help somebody
​​​​​
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