Originally Posted by ZX-Tex
(Post 412812)
Yeah ultimately that is the answer. Just try it and see. It is easy to disconnect it and zip-tie it out of the way. If you like it, it is also easy to remove.
I think when I do Konis with stiffer springs next month I will finally take it off for good. It was surprising just how long the rear would stay glued when N/A without rear sway. With turbo oversteer always comes first, I'm just trying to find out now if the bar makes it more predictable or not. |
Originally Posted by Machismo
(Post 412792)
I still question this no rear sway..... I have yet to run without one.
I thought all the AutoX'ers did this to get the car to rotate easier, which then becomes...well "not" nuetral. A car being neutral depends on a lot of factors, so in fact removing the rear bar could make the car more neutral, which would follow in a RWD. I personally like having front and rear bars. Swaybars are good for fine tuning, not so much as a solution to a problem. |
Originally Posted by jayc72
(Post 412863)
Swaybars are good for fine tuning, not so much as a solution to a problem.
hustler: you should also check with more knowledgeable people about your alignment. you are running more camber in rear then front which is not exactly a good thing for miata with its dynamic rear camber (camber changes during turn) so you have barely enough grip in rear during turns. here is an example of dynamic miata camber on my previous car: http://urbansoot.net/images/miata/CP3_0065_WEB.jpg thats -2.2 degrees front and -1.8 degrees rear. see how in this picture rear camber is WAY more then -1.8? dynamic camber ;) ps: look at inner rear wheel, not outer. |
what's the range of settings on your tein flex? i would raise the shock settings. i would say rear only, but it might change to oversteer if you don't raise the front also. (or try them at the same level) by raising the rear shocks stiffness, it might help to keep from transferring as much weight to the rear under acceleration while cornering.
also wonder why your running more camber in rear than frt.? i run 1.7 frt. 1.2 rear |
Originally Posted by ZX-Tex
(Post 412341)
I have door bars in my daily driver. You get used to it, not that big a deal IMO.
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I'm not sure about turbo miatas, but for spec miatas, a good alignment for r888s is about -2.7 front camber, 1/16 out front toe, -3.3 rear camber, and rear toe depends on the track. For RA-1s, same but -3.0 front camber and -3.5 rear camber.
Hustler, why are you only able to get -1.7 out of your front? Something isn't right there... either the guy who aligned your car doesn't know what they are doing, or you have a bent control arm or subframe, or a bad lower ball joint. |
a local shop just finished building spec miata and they could only get -1.8 degrees up front too. doesnt go further. i guess it has something to do with bushings perhaps...
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Originally Posted by UrbanSoot
(Post 413123)
a local shop just finished building spec miata and they could only get -1.8 degrees up front too. doesnt go further. i guess it has something to do with bushings perhaps...
Bent upper or lower control arm Bent subframe Bad lower ball joint It's also possible it's bushings, but unlikely. Just as likely that it is because the entire car is tweaked. If they built it and didn't address that issue, that's a shitty shop and I'd never bring my car there. |
Originally Posted by jayc72
(Post 412863)
Wouldn't removing the rear sway have the exact opposite effect on a Miata? Unless I miss understand your meaning of rotate. Take off that rear bar and the car is going to shift it's balance from oversteer to understeer. I noticed a significant difference when I went from the solid RB bar to the hollow, the car had much more tendency to push.
A car being neutral depends on a lot of factors, so in fact removing the rear bar could make the car more neutral, which would follow in a RWD. I personally like having front and rear bars. Swaybars are good for fine tuning, not so much as a solution to a problem. |
Originally Posted by UrbanSoot
(Post 413123)
a local shop just finished building spec miata and they could only get -1.8 degrees up front too. doesnt go further. i guess it has something to do with bushings perhaps...
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Originally Posted by Machismo
(Post 413171)
I does have something to with the bushings a bit..... we can usually get a bit more camber when upgrading to the polypro bushings.
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Originally Posted by NA6C-Guy
(Post 413093)
Are you worried at all about side impacts with the door bars? Thats the only thing keeping me from doing them. A side impact looks like it would ram that bar into your hip, probably shatter your pelvis and leg and what ever other damage in that area it could cause. I've never seen any in person though, so I can't really say anything about how you fit into the car with them.
Another problem, though only cosmetic, is there is some minor wear visible where my shoes sometimes scrape the bar getting in and out, and where the seat belt buckle gets caught between the bar and the door (sticking retractor). Also, it is entertaining watching passengers not used to the door bars get in and out of the car, especially larger passengers. |
Originally Posted by ZX-Tex
(Post 413305)
Yeah after reading up on it that seems to be the biggest debate point, especially on m.n. I think some modest padding on the part of the bar next to one's hip would take care of it. Some fixed back race seats would take care of it too since it is low relative to hip position (at the area near the seat back hinge); a race bucket would cover the bar.
Another problem, though only cosmetic, is there is some minor wear visible where my shoes sometimes scrape the bar getting in and out, and where the seat belt buckle gets caught between the bar and the door (sticking retractor). Also, it is entertaining watching passengers not used to the door bars get in and out of the car, especially larger passengers. And its also not that the entire door caving in on a side impact is preferred either. I would imagine a side impact from an SUV would feel like a huge wave coming for you. Top edge of the front would be above the roof of our little cars, so it would pretty much crush the entire side. At least maybe the door bar would reduce intrusion, but your day would still suck balls. |
Originally Posted by crashnscar
(Post 413251)
You aren't allowed to in SM.... and any decent car out there has at least -2.5 camber on each side.
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Originally Posted by crashnscar
(Post 413125)
All it has to do with is one (or multiple) of the following:
Bent upper or lower control arm Bent subframe Bad lower ball joint It's also possible it's bushings, but unlikely. Just as likely that it is because the entire car is tweaked. If they built it and didn't address that issue, that's a shitty shop and I'd never bring my car there. |
Originally Posted by NA6C-Guy
(Post 413312)
I'm also worried about the bar pushing the lower side bolsters of the seat up and making me sit crooked. I guess a narrow race seat would be ideal with door bars. Just doesn't look like any room down there for a 1 1/2'' bar (plus padding preferred). What seats are you running?
And its also not that the entire door caving in on a side impact is preferred either. I would imagine a side impact from an SUV would feel like a huge wave coming for you. Top edge of the front would be above the roof of our little cars, so it would pretty much crush the entire side. At least maybe the door bar would reduce intrusion, but your day would still suck balls. Yeah either way a side impact that bad is going to be a big pain in the butt, and the side, and a big headache (puns intended). Though there is already a smaller bar for it incorporated into the door, side intrusion is an argument for the door bar. Though really an SUV bumper is so high it is going to be coming at you at chest or even head level. |
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