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Old 09-17-2015, 09:48 AM   #1
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Default Upgrade my MSM coilovers springs or KW ?

Hey,

I got a 97 NA with MSM coilovers, I feel it is a little soft and high...

I thought about getting the Ground Control springs for Bilstein from GWR, but getting a new set of KW is an option too.

What do you guyz think ?

It is a mountain side / street car, I drove in my friends turbo NB (05) with KW and it was awesome! very tight and precise.

My MSM feel less tight and precise.

KW 1500$:
89-05 Mazda Miata KW Suspensions Coilovers: JSC Speed

GWR GC springs 430$ (+factory spring pirch removal needed):
Ground Control Coilover Conversion 375/250---For BILSTEIN SPORT SUSPENSION for Miata 1999-2005
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Old 09-17-2015, 10:43 AM   #2
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I am running 500/300 on oem msm bilsteins. They are decent. You can not get the car as low as 949s recommended suspension settings with out being on the stops on solid quick bumps. The car is rough over sharp small bumps. I would assume due to hitting g stops as well. The msm bilsteins are a good shock but not suited to be lowered. Which makes it even more rediculously high on an na. I am counting the pennies to make the jump to xidas in the next year. I have run them for 2 years now. I wouldn't recommend it for someone who has the money for a better option. If it's a budget setup that you are willing to run a compromised setup for a big jump in smooth corner capability then go for it. I WOULD NOT EVEN THINK ABOUT DOING ANY KIND OF MOUNTAIN RUNS WITH MY CARS SUSPENSION SETUP. Wanted to make it clear it is truly a butter smooth pavement setup that works in a pinch.
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Old 09-17-2015, 10:49 AM   #3
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I run MSM bilsteins on my car, and have no issues getting an inch or more lower than 949's specs.

You just have to think about what you're doing, and your height problems might be due to your enormous wheels.
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Old 09-17-2015, 11:38 AM   #4
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<p>Install shorter bumpstops or cut yours down.&nbsp; I have MSM Billy's on my HPDE with coil over perches and shortened bump stops.&nbsp; It's pretty kick *** HPDE suspension for very little money.</p><p>Likely harsh for street use, but not a street car so ain't care.</p>
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Old 09-17-2015, 11:59 AM   #5
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I am running stock bumps so maybe that's why. Also running isc top hats. I am running 15x9 jongbloeds now with 225 wide nt01s. I still will say for a street car it is extremely noticeable the valving is not correct.for the spring rates. With proper stops and top hats would probably be much better. At 949 specs you are missing around an inch of travel from a "proper" coilover
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Old 09-17-2015, 12:02 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedDirection View Post
I am running stock bumps so maybe that's why. Also running isc top hats. I am running 15x9 jongbloeds now with 225 wide nt01s. I still will say for a street car it is extremely noticeable the valving is not correct.for the spring rates. With proper stops and top hats would probably be much better. At 949 specs you are missing around an inch of travel from a "proper" coilover
At 949 Specs i have enough travel that i'm only limited by my tires getting jammed up into my chassis. Shocks are handling 600/400lb springs beautifully. In fact, it's so good that i'm moving the fronts up to 700s this weekend.

Travel. I has it.

Zyduhz by concealer404, on Flickr

Look at all these stants i have.

20150811_205524 by concealer404, on Flickr
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Old 09-17-2015, 12:07 PM   #7
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https://www.miataturbo.net/build-thr...d-miata-83458/

Three are pictures of where mine is set. I may break out the other springs I have and pickup new bumps tops and see if my mind changes some. I don't remember if I have 700 or 800s for the spare set I have. I was originally gonna revalue and run I think 800/500
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Old 09-17-2015, 12:08 PM   #8
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concealer, what size top hats are those? Do you know how much taller than OEM NB's they are? Also, what spring lengths are they?

I'm using 6" 500's in the front and 7" 375's in the rear with MSM Billies, and the rear is max low, but still over an inch higher than yours. I have future plans of getting 6" rears, lowering the rear to 949 specs, and extending top hats, but I'm not sure if I can lower the rear down a lot before I make the extended top hats.
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Old 09-17-2015, 12:10 PM   #9
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You should also consider moving the circlip down. I wouldn't run this with stock bumps either. (I actually need longer ones because i was stupid and didn't account for my top hats.)

I'm revalving anyways, because while it's working well now, i'm sure it would work better with better matched valving, but it rides impressively well and is very composed in general.
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Old 09-17-2015, 12:11 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acedeuce802 View Post
concealer, what size top hats are those? Do you know how much taller than OEM NB's they are? Also, what spring lengths are they?

I'm using 6" 500's in the front and 7" 375's in the rear with MSM Billies, and the rear is max low, but still over an inch higher than yours. I have future plans of getting 6" rears, lowering the rear to 949 specs, and extending top hats, but I'm not sure if I can lower the rear down a lot before I make the extended top hats.
Top hats are 1.5" rear, 1.0" front. They're that much taller than OEM NBs.

Spring lengths are 6".

Car might actually be slightly below 949's specs. I'm at 11.75" front, 12.00" rear. Probably slightly too low, but i like it and will worry about dialing it in better over winter. Handles awesome to me, and everyone who has driven it has had nothing but great things to say about it.
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Old 09-17-2015, 12:16 PM   #11
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I want to say mine is 12.25 and 12.5
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Old 09-17-2015, 12:18 PM   #12
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That's a great height for a dual purpose car. I believe that would even be 949's specs.
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Old 09-17-2015, 12:22 PM   #13
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Yeah but rough riding. I may need to pull them off. Put new bumps on and trim the coil over sleeve too to make sure the shock will go into the top hey if need be. Then it maybe more liveable and push off expensive coil overs a Lil longer

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Old 09-17-2015, 12:36 PM   #14
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I'm running bilstein sports with nb top hats, the same perches as concealer, 550/6" in the front and 350/7" in the rear with about 1" bump stops. I'm at about 12" front and 12.25" rear and I think the car is fine on the street and HPDE. It's a relatively cheap setup that works well enough and is as durable as a sledge hammer.

If I ever take it all apart and do it again, I'd probably get some extended top hats and run longer, softer bump stops. I think this would make it even more comfy on the street. I would also look into some cheap helper springs, mostly just for cool factor though. My springs come loose at full droop, but I haven't noticed it causing any real problems.
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Old 09-17-2015, 10:20 PM   #15
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<p>&nbsp;</p><p>I have MSM setup;</p><p>7&quot;&nbsp; 550 Front + 7&quot; - 350 Rear</p><p>Allstar sleeves with stock circlip location.</p><p>FCM stops 36mm&nbsp;Front - 46mm Rear</p><p>Two-Six Top hats (basically 3/4-1&quot to get the extra stroke of the shocks back and move the bump stops up.</p><p>I'm at 12&quot; front and 12-1/4 Rear.&nbsp; Could probably go a bit lower but I have the adjuster nuts fully engaged in the threads.&nbsp; Like the Bilstein thread I used cut down bump stops for the upper 'sandwich' of the nut.&nbsp; I'm really happy with the ride and don't find it harsh in the least.</p><p>The only thing I'd do differently is 6&quot; springs + Hyperco helpers because I don't like the springs being able to come loose at full droop (just a personal thing).&nbsp; If I do install the helpers I'll go to 600F and 400R.</p><p><img src="https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.miataturbo.net-vbulletin/1000x562/80-2015_08_31_10_50_20_27b2e8472280e60f32c7cc9d6e83d0 9451454512.jpg" title="" /></p><p><img src="http://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.miataturbo.net-vbulletin/1000x562/80-2015_08_29_12_29_00_d8e6b1884605fa0688e394a4a934fa 8eff6f7146.jpg" title="NB OEM vs MSM Coilover" /></p><p><em>NB OEM vs MSM Coilover</em></p><p><br /><br />&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p>
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