Wilwood Big Brake or Corrado
 

I might can already guess what most of the responses will be, but I will ask anyway. For a future LS1 powered Miata that will be a mix of street and track, would you personally go with the Wilwood Big Brake kit (949 carries it for ~$1800) or would you go the cheaper route and just do the Corrado rotors, good pads, maybe AX6's since it will be street driven, and some stainless lines? I will have the money to do either, but of course saving $1000 for something else would be nice. At the same time the extra stopping power and somewhat the bling factor (at least I'm honest) of the Wilwoods makes them seem well worth the cost. Brakes and suspension are the first things on my list, so it should be soon. I have two ideas in my head of what I want the car to become, and I can't decide on one over the other. One being a fully stripped, mostly full time track car with a little road driving here and there. The other is a balanced track/street car, still keeping things like a/c and heat, and a suspension that won't break my back on the streets.

Would the XP8 be anything resembling streetable?

I daily drove XP8s for a few months. Stopped just fine cold, hot even better. This was on the corrado rotors. I just put on the trackspeed wilwood kit, using the same rotors. They'll make swapping pads a five minute job too.
As for bling, 4pot wilwoods vs. heavy-ass single piston calipers. Your choice ;)
If your budget accommodates either, go wilwood.

+1 for Trackspeeds Wilwood kit, don't have it yet, but that's the route I'll be taking. Much cheaper than other alternatives.

Damn it. Now another option for me to be indecisive over. By the time you add rotors and pads, you are looking at what... ~$1000 if you go with standard replacement Corrado rotors. The bling of those aluminum tophat's on the kit 949 offers is still tempting. Nothing kills me more than rusty tophats under nice wheels (will be 6UL's of course). Don't know that it is worth an extra $800 though.

I have a big problem with the 989/V8R kit, the e-brake is missing. I have the Trackspeed kit and had a problem where a foreign object of some sort kinked the brake piston and I had total brake pedal failure at 110mph or so. If I didn't have that hand brake I most likely would have gone through the infield out the other side of the track and/or into a wall.

949 also has the normal front only kit, which is the one I would have to have. No way to go without an e-brake for me, since it would still be my daily in the meantime, and would still see street driving in the future. Still leaning for the 949 kit since it has matching rear rotors, as that kind of aesthetic thing I can't overlook. It really draws my eye when you see awesome front brakes, then in the rear you have rusty shitty tiny rotors and stock calipers. I at least want bling rotors in the rear to even it out. This car is going to be quick, but I also want it to look good, not just a track slave.

V8R in the rear is BS anyway and for looks only.

Goodwin V4 or (4 or 6pot) V8R in the front
Goodwin V4 in the rear
Add BIG V8R MC.
Profit.

Maybe a stupid question. Is it necessary or recommended to run a proportioning valve on an upgraded setup like this? If both the front and rear get upgraded, it seems like maybe it wouldn't be absolutely needed.

I don't want the rusty look either, I'm planning on getting the 1-piece RacingBrake Corrado Rotors for the front (http://www.racingbrake.com/CORRADO_G...1-111-1736.htm) since the Trackspeed kit comes with the centric ring for Corrado rotors and RBs 1-piece rotor for the OE rear. RB makes a 2-piece rotor as well.

Prop valve is still a really good idea for adjustments, even on the stock setup.

Good point. I've got so much crap flying through my head again with money being back in the equation again. I put it all on hold when I went back to school full time and quit working full time. Now I'm going to be back to work, and will actually have money again. I had plans all laid out nicely, but now I introduce the money variable and it all goes to shit. I'm even starting to *gulp* think about turbo over LS1 again. The turbo bug is still there. Now I'm searching for FE info... :giggle:

You can buy the track speed kit and then source your own rotors and aluminum hats since it doesn't come with the rotors, Sav is a cool guy so I have to recommend his stuff. I think it would be the cheapest option for the bling and a good set up. I just checked and you can get new hats and rotors from good win for about $400 for all 4.

I bought those but have not run them yet.

I may give Sav my business, I'll just have to figure on the costs a bit more first. $600 plus rotors, pads, master and prop valve should be a little cheaper than 949's kit.

Sav recommended them to me when he and I were discussing his kit. He said he's using them on his car now.

The way I figured it, it should be well under the cost of the kit. When I did the math, I could step up to 6-pot calipers and still come in under a basic BBK.

YOu say you are going to run the Corrado rear rotors? Where did you get the adapter plates for the rear? I see Goodwin has a full kit, but I don't see just the adapter kit without their rotors.

No, just the OE sized rears from RB.

Ah. That may be the route I go as well. How much of an improvement would you see from larger rear rotors? Surely not nearly as much as the front, which is why so many only focus on the fronts. I guess it would be worth saving a few hundred bucks and just upgrading rotors, stock size rears. 8lb total less in the rear staying stock vs the Corrado rotors, that's pretty big too.

I've got the RB fronts on my car, I'd recommend them for a track car. The standard rotors will do the job for most people, but I was starting to see some hairline cracks after 3-4 days on them so I stepped up.

Rear brake upgrade isn't necessary, but if you want something larger to match you can always go with the M-Tuned rear kit. I do recommend a prop valve regardless of what you do, though.

I DDed XP12s for a few months, they had plenty of cold bite. The only downside is that they dust like no other, but it's not corrosive to the wheels so it's not a big deal.

You should be able to do our BBK, a set of RB rotors, Carbotechs, and a liter of ATE for like $1000-1050 shipped. Add a prop valve and you'll have a really good setup.

Wait, which rotors saw cracking? Standard as in stock?

What about an upgraded master cylinder, do you recommend doing that as well? Or overkill?

I'm thinking XP8 will be good enough for me, since it won't see nearly the track duty some of the cars you guys run. I MIGHT do the XP10's.

The stock Corrado rotors. I'm not talking like cracks where you look from 3ft and go "HOLY CRAP DUDE TOW THE CAR HOME', I'm talking like little tiny beginnings of hairline fractures. Nothing that hasn't been seen before, it's a really chronic problem on stock C5 Vette brakes. Still, I figured I should jump up to a rotor that's properly vented, unlike the stock Corrado rotor.

Upgraded MC is a good plan too. I'm going to prototype a 626 master cylinder and see if an install kit makes sense, or whether it just ends up being a drop-in part. BikeInDirt, one of the Cali track crew guys, has it on his car and raves about it.

XP8s will be fine for someone just starting out. Keep an eye on pad life, and if it starts to dip below the 4-5 day mark consider stepping up to the next compound. If you go too high, though, you run around with the pads below their optimal operating temp and they wear quickly as well. The three compounds (8, 10, and 12) also have different modulation and initial bite characteristics - the 10s are a bit softer and modulate with pedal travel vs. pressure, while the 12s have a crisper initial bite and modulate with pressure.

I'm still a month or two away from buying the brake parts, so I will for sure keep an eye out on the 626 MC situation. Surely you could set that up for less than the $230 for the Wilwood. If not, I'll probably just do the Wilwood to avoid regret later for having skipped out on it.

So no cracks evident on the RB slotted (I assume slotted) as of yet?

Another question. Anybody sell just rear brake lines? The TSE Wilwood kit only comes with the front of course, and I don't want to buy another full set of lines. Never seen just a front or rear set alone, always a set of 4.

Given enough power and cooling absence, you will see hair line cracks in 2-piece DBA rotors (a.k.a. Goodwin V4). Within a day.

I think I have the rear two lines and the distribution block out of my spare set of lines I bought when I chafed one of the front ones and had to buy a whole nuther set of 4 LOL. These are the Advanced Autosport lines, for stock calipers. PM me if interested.

trackdog

This is a solid set up and its worked well for me aside from the foreign object ruining a caliper. I have different feelings about the Carbotech pads than everyone on this forum, but if you're a cheapskate like me I recommend Hawks.

I'm going to try these DTC-60's out and if that doesn't work I'm going back to Hawk blue front (hps on the street), and Carbotech xp12 in the rear. For some reason the Racing Brake guys advise against using Carbotech with their rotors due to some variation in the rotor metals.

Make it sound like you track guys keep stacks of rotors handy for immanent failure...


Where did you read this? I looked over all of their technical pages and couldn't find anything related to that.

I'll try it out anyway.

Its hidden in that site somewhere. They claim the Carbotech pads clogged the rotor or some weird shit like that. I still don't buy Carbotech because I've had two sets in the front and they sucked ass both times.

Seems like once you got a layer formed, it wouldn't be an issue. Even if the Carbotechs suck, I wouldn't know it. Anything is better than shitty parts store oe replacements.

Late in to this but I'd recommend just do the M-tuned fronts with corrado's first. You'll have $100 in brackets and $60 in rotors. Spend the big bucks on a better brake set up if and when you find this isn't adequate for your driving. The big buck set up will save you time and money in the long run. The pads for the wilwoods have a lot more material in them and last longer but don't cost any more than for our stock brakes. With how quick you can change pads with them it's much easier to run dedicated track pads and use cheap pads for the street.

I've been running xp10 fronts and xp8 rears for a year now. They work pretty well as a DD/track day set up. I've heard really good things about Cobalt lately. I'm likely going to give them a shot when I need pads again. They don't need the break in that Carbotech does. Don't know about how corrosive the dust may be though.

The Trackspeed Wilwood setup and Corrado rotors still tickles my fancy. If I'm going to do it, I would rather go ahead and do it right the first time. Even the M-Tuned way, I would still be spending $100 on brackets, $100+ for lines, roughly $300 on rotors and another $200ish on pads. Pretty much everything but the calipers. Might as well go ahead and spend a bit more and get them the first time around.

Go for it. You will be happy. You will regret spending almost as much and not just spending the litttle bit extra.

Wilwoods are some good caliper and at least they look good too for the bling factor.

GO for the willwoods they last a long long time, brake like crazy and are so easy to change a cave man can do it. i love the willwoods. i think they are worth the extra money, to do it right the first time.

I would consider the 4 POT dynapro if you're going to get wilwoods. Having to fix multiple leaky bleeder screws and fittings + the metal toothpick pad retainer has me second guessing if I made the right caliper choice going with the dynalite. I haven't looked into what this means for pad selection or cost, though.

Will the Trackspeed brackets work with the dynopro's? Sorry in advance for not doing my homework. :)

If you get the right ones they will. We have 6 piston dynapros on Savington's car right now. Shoot us an email if you are interested and we can help you out. info@trackspeedengineering.com

NA6C-Guy,

Either option will get the job done. There is roughly a 12 lb difference between the two options. The original DBA rotor or our 949 V4 replacement rotors are a far more thermally efficient design than the OEM Corrado rotor. Total thermal capacity will be greater with our 11" V4 kit compared to a Corrado rotor based kit.

Whichever you choose, you must run brake ducts for track use at your power and weight.

If you are just getting started as a track driver, running street tires and expect to be well over Spec Miata lap records for your local tracks, you have can run either with XP8's. If OTOH, you are running race tires at your weight/power and think you'll be at or below SM records, you'll need the maximum braking and at least XP10's up front.

Though I am very subject to changing my mind again, I think for now I am going to go with the M-Tuned front kit, RB Corrado front and stock Miata size RB rears, XP10's, some kind of lines, and just run the stock calipers and master cylinder for now, for cost reasons. I'm not realistically going to be tracking it any for the foreseeable future, so for now that will be more than good enough for my spirited daily driving / weekend fun / occasional autocross or possibly a track event or two. When the time comes, I'm only BBK V4 and master cylinder away. This whole staggered build sucks, trying to build an eventual track car while still having to daily it for another year or more. Things will just have to be eventual and chaotic when they do happen. Probably going to cost me more doing some stuff twice, but oh well. Thanks for the help so far. Maybe one day I will actually be able to hit the track.

As of now, tires will be my first purchase, with a good alignment, followed up by the Teins, then the brakes lastly. My transmission isn't playing nice right now, so it may interfere and force me to throw money at it to make it leave me alone, so who knows.

To sway you back to the wilwood setup, I sold my front (New) M-Tuned BBK, 1.8 brackets, calipers, SS lines, and (new) Porterfield RS4 pads for about 100 less then what I bought the Wilwoods for IIRC.

Just installing them made them worth the money over OEM!

Well, everything I am doing will be transferable to the Wilwood setup later, so it won't be a complete waste. I'm just thinking of it as I'm only buying 75% of the package now, saving the most expensive parts until I really need them.

racing brake says "no" on Carbotechs for their CGI rotors:
http://www.racingbrake.com/v/main/pad_warning.asp

edit: It reads like they're saying "no" to carbotech street pads. I don't really care what they say, but ran across this today and remembered this thread.

I also like:
http://www.racingbrake.com/images/pad-deposit.jpg
I've made rotors look like this with Hawk DTC-30 as of late, several other pads throughout the years.

Tasty Kool Aid.

I have a Jonestown Kool-Aid joke, but the punch-line is too long. lulz

I'm willing to believe this BS if RB is willing to sell me the next set of Corrado rotors at less than $90 each.

Hmmm... :squint: I really hate complications. I like how they also offer suggestion of what pad TO use. :jerkit: Well if Carbotech isn't a suitable "race" pad, what is? I really don't want anything too aggressive though since it will be more street car than track car. Maybe I would be better off using another manufacturers rotors with the Carbotechs.

+1. Anyone really wonder why the rotor company wants you to use pads that cut into the rotors? I've got a couple days now on CT XP12s and RB one-piece rotors with none of the problems they claim.

BS claims from one company to another?!? ZOMG WHATS THE WORLD COMING TO!

On another note, I thought chamfered holes made them pointless

A couple of days on pads? You must be talking rear pads :)
Or your brake ducting/cooling is existent instead of phantom :)

So these claims are false then?

Considering that XP12's for my Wilwoods are $160 for fronts...it god damn better last more than one day. I'd love to try them again, after they lasted a whopping 45-minutes on my sport brakes thanks to taper, but I'm not in the mood for taking chances on fancy pads.

Carbotech seems to be the only manufacturer who feels the need to charge more for Dynalite pads than OE shapes.

Yes, they are false. I don't get any of the funky pulsations, cracks, etc. I also get ~4 days out of a set of front pads, ~8 days out of a set of rear pads.

Being as it's mostly a street car, I'm more concerned with the claim of the brakes being catchy. I don't want to drive around with the brakes being jerky, popping at low speeds and being unpredictable just cruising around town. I can't imagine that being a problem though, their claim still makes no sense to me. I'm still not sure as to whether to do the XP8 or 10, probably 8's for a good balance.

Ignore everything in that page, none of it is true or correct, I get NONE of those issues. There is no driveability difference between stock Corrado rotors and the RB rotors.

Was gonna do anyway, but will do. It's not like I will even notice these problems. At this rate I will never get my car to run right n/a let alone boosted. It's a never ending stream of shit that keeps pushing my build further and further back. Just like last time I had money to do the build. I kept getting held off by little annoyances. Lost money and it all worked decently well. Get some money again and it all starts back up literally within days of getting my job back.

:vash:

I think you need to personally just evaluate where you stand financially to go either way. Although I feel like bang for the buck would probably go to the corrado brakes.

For now it will just be the RB Corrado rotors front, RB stock size Miata rears, XP8's, some braided lines and a prop valve. That should be more than enough for me for now. When I feel I need more, the Wilwoods are only a hop skip and a $600 away.

Just ordered my brackets for the Corrado upgrade. I'll also be getting the lines and prop valve. Don't know about pads yet. I think this setup will be enough for me right now too.

You going with RB rotors? Did you get the m-tuned brackets?

DTC-60 > your life...but they will suck ass on the street.

Yup, the m-tuned brackets. I don't know about rotors yet. The RB stuffs is too much money. Might just go up to the Advance Auto Parts for that 15% my friend gets me.

Make sure you get rotors with the vents in the hat, or your proper fucked if you ever put the car on the track.