Xida Club-Sports
 

Just looked at 949 racing's website and noticed they have the Xida-CS on their webpage. Copied from http://949racing.com/xida-club-sport...ver-miata.aspx

Detailed Description


XIDA Club Sport coilovers

Coming January 2011

90-05 Mazda MX5 Miata

Features

* Single adjustable Compression & rebound adjustment together, 12 step
* Full aluminum monotube construction
* Floating piston internal design
* Adjustable height spring perches
* Torrington thrust bearings
* 120mm stroke front, 103mm rear
* High Pressure nitrogen charged
* Spherical bearing lower mounts
* 700/400 standard rates
* 60mm Hypercoil OBD springs
* Total weight: 7 lbs front, 6 lbs rear (light!)
* Damping sweep for front 800~500, rear 500~300
* Can be upgraded to double or triple adjustable

Options

* OEM 99-05 Mazda upper mounts
* Dual spring system
* Miata/MX5 specific, CNC machined aluminum extended upper spherical bearing mounts
* Coaxial perches included with optional alloy upper mounts

XIDA Club Sport

New for 2011 is the long awaited and more affordable version of the highly sought after Xida coilovers. What did we take out? Nothing! This is the exact same damper as the Xida-S, double and triple adjustable. The difference is we adapted the front shaft and shock body to be compatible with the low cost but very functional OEM Mazda 99-05 upper shock mount. This and the success of the original Xida system has allowed us to slash the price down to $1799 for the Club Sport.

The exceptional valving sensitivity produces both incredible grip over any paved surface and exceptional ride quality. Make no mistake, despite the surprising streetability, these are purpose built racing dampers intended for use under the most demanding motorsports environments.

Confused about ordering?

Sorry! If you have a 90-97 Miata and do not have factory NB mounts and hardware, you can just add them to your Xida Club Sport order for a complete ready to bolt in system. If you have a 99-05 Miata or the upper shock mounts from same, just order the Xida Club Sports without mounts.

For race tired cars with track performance as the main goal, we generally start with 700/400 rates. If you all of your local tracks are really rough and bumpy, then drop to 600 or 650 from and 350/400 rear. If running 275 Hoosiers on smoother lots or 225/45's on 9" wheels with noticeable aero downforce, 800/500.

For a mostly daily driver that only sees occasional autocross or track use, 550/350 if using really sticky street tires. For medium or small (205/50 on 15x7) street tires on a mostly street car, 450/300 rates. If running an LSx conversion, sames rates apply. If running a small block Ford conversion, add 100# front and 50# to each recommendation range. If you are still not sure, give us a call. We'll get the system matched exactly to your needs.

* SCCA ITA, CSP, SSM,STS, STR
* 2010 NASA PT/TT 5 points






Discuss...

This is very good news for me.

Hmm, this makes my choice a bit more difficult.

Does anyone out here have the double or triple adj Xidas?

Very nice. I know some people who might jump on this. He is going to sell a junk load of these at that price. Go Emilio!

That price still makes me look poor. I hope 2011 is a good year... Because I'm getting these, regardless. I need those XTRs first :vash:

Anyone know what purpose the double spring serves?

I'm also wondering if there are cheaper top hats then 200$

doesn't hustler sacrifice babies for these?

You can get top hats through mazdaspeed for cheap if you race. The helper spring just keeps the spring tight at full droop, not needed.

Dual springs are essential ingredient in getting them to work the way they do. That they keep the springs from rattling is a bonus. Will go into more detail when we officially launch them.

They're just about the same price as the twin-tube inferior competition, better in every way bar none, and you can get them revalved almost anywhere and they're essentially brand new.
You probably won't find one cheaper that raises the mount point for the rear. He also sells them cheaper than AST sold me the spherical uppers. When you have the spherical upper and solid/metal lower mounts, even on the 20-year old rubber bushings) I had an incredible amount of surface feedback.You can really feel the slip angle on the tire.
Think "inter-species" rather than human sacrifice. I have a different shock that is very similar but only rebound adjustable and a few other features that I don't understand didn't make it to my shocks.
I don't run the helper spring because "I spent enough money that day".
These shocks are going to CRUSH the market. I guess I'll put my spare set of Tein Flex on my daily now since no one with sound mine would purchase them.

I said this on the other forum, and I know I jock these a hard and for no reason, but these dampers are incredible. I put them on my car and immediately dropped 2-seconds. Once I learned to turn-in earlier and learned to use the extreme increase in entry and apex speed, I dropped another .5. The first few sessions, the increased entry and apex speeds feel alien, but the grip is there; I've gone through the grass enough times at Hallett to know that I was entering with more speed and turning in too early to do that on the old shocks.

It was interesting to see suspension attract a crowd of civilians and SM drivers. The coolest part about these is getting an $1800 damper, springs, mounts, and all the leg-work done on valving, while you get the similar/same materials and design, and the same internals as what you'll see Grand Am Sportscar running next year with a tighter seal to extend road-grime durability.

ok, I'm done now.

Speaking of unsound minds, hawk them on Clubroadster.net. There are guys there that think Tien Flex's are a lifestyle choice.

http://www.clubroadster.net/vb_forum...&postcount=238

Flexes might end up on my car, but it's more because happenstance is a way of life.

Emilio,

Similar pricing, can you compare/contrast the differences between the Tein Monoflex and the Xida Clubs? Construction, performance, durability, etc.

Wouldn't it be nice to happenstance your way into a non-shitty set of mono tube shocks.

it would. but that's not what happenstanced. for my needs, teins are great, ive driven on a few cars with them and had little complaints. I have a DD so i mean...

Since these are being toted as the best things since sliced bread, how do they compare to other high-end offerings from companies like Ohlins?

i would imagine that they would be a little better due to the fact that the ohlins didn't get a true track miataphile to r&d the valving for a year before closing in on the sweetspot. in laymans terms: the ohlins were jessica alba giving you a bj in the elevator UNTIL.... the doors opened and you were interrupted. =(

the xida's are same situation, but the elevator stopped between floors and you were able to cum in her mouth while she jiggled the balls!

the ohlins are "almost" there. the xida's finished!

before or after she got preggers?

I'll be damned if that doesn't make me want to try out a set of Xidas!

Really? Not being a smart ass, what do they do? I thought they were put on there for miata.net wine and cheesers and you could take them off for race aplications. Do your helper not collapse fully just sitting still? So are they for running a high rate but keeps it civil on the street? Explain please I'm super interested in all this stuff.

I could and will prattle on for half an hour describing what the secondary springs do but this is the cliff notes version:

A 2000 lb car with the motion ratio of just under 1.5:1 won't compress a 700# spring far enough to allow meaningful droop travel on a longer than average race damper stroke. Beyond that, without the secondaries, there is no spring stroke left to push the tire down to remain in contact with the road.

Hit a rounded kerb at 80mph, trail brake into a hairpin, threshold brake over bad braking ripples with and without helpers. Worth every penny of the $200 upcharge for custom made springs, needle roller thrust bearings and HDPE couplers.

Why not run a longer softer spring?

Why run track valving while we are at it? Why not just run Racelands every 4 months?

Because too much body roll is a bad thing. Good valving lets you run stiff springs comfortably.

Can the dual spring mod be added after say i purchased a set without them?

Yes. These $1800 shocks can be turned into the $blang blang$$$ Xidas, one step at a time.

Thanks Emilio that makes perfect sense.

Good to hear, Ill be placing an order.

Weight and spring rate.

To get the correct spring rate and still have enough spring stroke, would require a spring about 11" long. Springs aren't light, particularly less expensive springs like QA-1's and AFCO's. Hyperco and Swift generally have the lightest and most consistent rate springs on the market. We use Hyperco's because they cost about the same as Swifts and many of the sizes utilize their proprietary OBD (Optimum Body Diameter) design technology which further reduces weight and helps control distortion under compression.

Another factor is the Xida's are intended from the beginning to be able to be raced at extremely low ride heights while still utilizing stroke eating coaxial perches and the extra 2.3" of dual spring hardware. Xida's are the only long stroke coilovers on the market that allow max bump travel with those two segments of hardware in there.

Put another way, tender springs help when you have this combo

1) stiff srpings
2) long stroke dampers
3) you hit a bump and catch air

Yup. Even without 100% unweighting, they are active. Do the math on a 700# spring and how much preload is required up front for a typical 51/49% track Miata at around 2450lbs total weight. That ain't a lot of droop travel. So even rough pavement will unseat a single spring system without completely unweighting. That's one of the reasons the Mazdaspeed Spec Miata kit is such a PITA

Yes we are assuming at the most they got street driven to check for squeeks. You have no proof that they ever got the development time that the Xida got on or off the track. Why take a 2600 gamble with them when you can buy Emilio's Xida's and talk to the developer at midnight on a Wednesday? Yes Emilio answers emails really late some nights. I would rate the Xida's up there with Moton and Penske.

If anyone here will be at Streets of Willow this weekend, we'll have a set of Xida Club Sports on William's black NB.

we also have no proof that Raceland hasn't done extensive track tests.
it only matters what you have proof of.

I'm done feeding.

Damn you bastards making me spend more money and no more work.

Doesn't the sway-bar keep the opposing spring tight against the perches?

We don't have to pretend that Ohlins got the right valving, their spring rates aren't half what they should be, the rear bodies aren't too long, pretend there's someone to revalve/service them...are they're $1200 more than Xida CS, and what happens if something were to go wrong?

949 and AST-USA are both American small businesses so you can call them and they are helpful? A few days ago my cat was upset with me, so I called 949 after talking to AST and they recommended I use the kitty laser, do you get that kind of service from Ohlins/Japanese? No, they will tell you that "Kitty disrespect famiry." This is contrary to my recent failure to track-down a replacement water temp gauge sender from a retarded Japanese company which became a 2-week process with no results and disrespected famiry.

On a slightly more serious note, if you hit a pot-hole and things go south, replacement parts are one phone call away. I've been on the other side of that fence with old-ass H&R coilovers where one shock puked all the oil out. H&R's solution, after weeks of chasing them, was to buy a new set.

Stop feeding him, can you put him on a global ignore list where he only talks to himself.

I've read the largest issue with Ohlins is the limited rear travel. That's where the Xidas have the edge.

It does become noticeable in what I would call "surprise moments" on a daily drive at speeds faster than the recommended limit through poorly designed intersections or construction zones.

Or over like, bumps.

Corrected math below


700 #/in front springs ~= 350 #/in at the wheel.
2450 lbs car ~= 612# at one wheel.

612/350 = only 1.75" of wheel travel to go from rest, to full unseating of the spring

IOW an abrupt 1.75" dip in the road is enough for the tire to catch air.

daily drive? 3 words - fat cat motorsports
even though i'm sure the xida's would work better, why would you buy a set of "track" coilovers for street duty? i think it's already been established that for $$$ and riding low while cruising the boulevard, racelands are the ticket.
like others have said, i'm done trying to esplain dese tings. you buy ohlins or tein or whatever and you'll probably be fine. for those of us that wan't to shave the last tenth will know what's what.

Keith Tanner was the one who commented about the Ohlins lack of rear travel. He tested them on real roads while designing the shocks for the Targa Miata. I'm sure the Ohlins are great for tracking but they are major coinage. The Xidas are a better value for sure.

2x150

Stay on topic or I'll hack your computer and give your financial information to Nigerian scammers.

Well speak of the devil!!!

I was just watching World Challenge and saw them not only give us a suspension shot, but it was an AST car, and it was using the helper spring:

lol@my awesome video.
This makes me rethink my decision to not get the helpers. However, wit the wheels off the ground I only have 1/4" or so of gap from the spring to the perch (none in the rear). Would I still benefit from using the helper? With that little of a gap at full droop, is it likely the sway-bar is taking up the gap, making the helper unnecessary?

BTW, see those spots on my TV? That 50" fucker is 3-years old and a total waste of $1500!!!

Do you heppen to have this info handy for the helpers:
- free length
- fully compressed length

At the track now. Very similar dimensions to Eibach's 2x150.


Hustler,

Beating a dead horse. They work better with the dual spring set up regardless of what you use your Miata for, what intersection you cath air on, how your car is set up. Its effectively a progressive rate spring and that's key with high primary rates.

Ahh, 2x150 means 2" x 150 lb/in?

Yup. Total stack with bearing and coupler is around 58mm IIRC.

Do you use the helper springs with the sifter rates as well?

I stop at 450/300 rates on the softer end and yes, those get dual springs as well. The ride with those rates is amazing. Most customers use Xida's on dedicated track day, wheel to wheel or autocrossers. A few on the occasional weekend toy that also has to keep the wife/girlfriend happy with a better than stock ride.

So looking at your site - both the clubs and S are single adjustable. Clubs can be upgraded to double or triple adj - not so with the S? Basically, from a cost and performance standpoint, choosing dual springs with mounts on the club - what does the S offer over the club for roughly $650?

Top mount with bearings vs rubber mounts for the Club Sports.

All four models Club Sport, S, double and triple are the exact same damper. As wannafbody mentioned, it's just upper mounts added for the S. Currently, the AST sourced upper mounts are beautiful but very expensive. 949 Racing's own spherical bearing uppers are in development and we should have those by the end of Q1/11 and be quite affordable.

sounds like you just turned clubs into s. thats the whole idea. if you can't afford it all at once you can upgrade later. i love the idea, and is probably the only way i can get into a set.

Sorry I will correct my erroneous math below

And then...

A 2" x 150 lb/in tender spring would potentially increase total droop travel by 1.6" before the springs unload. After the wheel droops about 1.4" the tender spring starts to extend from its fully compressed position, and "takes over" with about 60 lb/in at the wheel and provides another ~2" of available droop. Good for softening a landing after a wheel that would otherwise catch air, and it also maintains *some* traction.

Yup. Since the helper is coil bound mid stroke, you end up with a somewhat asypmtotic, progressive spring rate. So the wheel rate is much lower near full droop.