Xidas rubbing on FUCA! HELP!
 

How does this happen? Anyone else have this issue? its on both sides.

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...baf18a6407.jpg
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You sir, are a mufuggin savage. Thank you.

Had the same problem with the msm when installing my coilovers.

Same issue for me. They clearanced themselves, lol

NB2 arms have the extra brace, as noted above.

However, that alone is not normally an issue. By chance, do you also have ELBJs or offset bushings installed and are running less than -3* camber?

I have ELBJs. No offset bushings. -3* front camber.

This is a new issue. I think it started happening after the ELBJs were installed but im not sure.

I have not seen/heard of this issue before with cars running ELBJs. So if there is a bigger problem then I dont want to order new shock bodies just for them to get gouged as well.

How thick are the shock bodies? I feel like there is barely anything left.

You realize that there is probably 1mm left in the shock body right? Self clearancing is not the solution.

Im riding on blown out zidas anyways :)

ill be grinding the tab down on the control arm, but mine isnt as bad.

I will be grinding mine down as well but im not sure that is the whole issue.

Sometimes you just gotta grind a FUCA.

So are you saying that is the reason why its rubbing Emilio?

Like I mentioned on the phone, the issue is a combination of
- NB2 UCA gusset takes away precious few mm of clearance.
- ELBJs that add too much camber for your current usage/height/whatever, so you've:
- Minimized camber with the cam bolts, which pulls the lower shock mount, and therefore shock body, inward towards the UCA gusset.

The very few cases I've seen have been NB2 only. This does not seem to happen on 90-00 suspensions, but Mazda has superseded the early arms with the NB2 part number. We will only see more of this going forward.
Adding back some camber with the LCA cam bolts will move the LCA and lower shock mount out away from the gusset, but may not give you enough clearance by itself.
Grinding away part of that gusset will make some room, but may not give you enough clearance by itself.

​​​​​​​

Ok so heres the thing, I was not able to achieve my current camber targets with stock lbj. Also, if this is something you have seen before, its really, REALLY important to state this on the site or something so the customer knows about this issue. How am I supposed to know that this would happen? Its completely unreasonable to expect a customer to disassemble a shock and stick it in the car and do a stroke pass when there is no documentation of an issue such as this. So now im stuck with an $800 bill for new dampers. I will call tomorrow and see if we can come to a reasonable solution.

why new shocks? Did you grind a hole all the way through?

its too close for comfort.

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...16b1cf9352.jpg
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Yep. No way would i run that.

If I push on the center of the damaged area, I can feel the metal flexing. Its paper thin.

Also, for what its worth, the bump stops dont really do anything.

this is *Just* before the wheel starts to make contact with the fender well. Already well into bump stop.https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...5205b3c212.jpg
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And this is where the bump stop is maxed out. So a 1/2" of extra wheel travel that is not needed/supposed to be there/"safe".
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...8bb1ddbac6.jpg
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And this is where you just start to touch the bump stop. So there is a whole inch of bump stop travel. This would have been fine if the bump stop was firmer and progressive to keep the bump stop from compressing all the way but still not be harsh. But its way too soft.
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...6dadf6b230.jpg
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https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...fbf4594c86.jpg

I did notice that the bumpstops supplied were much softer than what i was using on my old Bilstein setup, but didn't really stop to think what that meant at the time, because i wasn't really focusing on that car.

Have you talked to your pro suspension builder?

Bump stops come in different hardnesses and heights. Ride heights are adjustable too. So are springs and damping. You are buying an aftermarket off-road, race product. It will require you to tailor it to your particular needs. It probably works just fine on many cars the way it is.

The rubbing is a bad thing, but complaining about the bump stops is like plugging in a megasquirt and expecting it to be perfect with the base map.

You were more focused on much bigger things like what happens when you lean hard on one side and then let go.

Bump stops are independent of ride height. It's reasonable to expect that stops provided for a coilover system that is tailored for a specific chassis within a normal range of spring rates would do what they're supposed to do.

The amount of rubbing here may not be a bad thing and may be working as intended, but George is not outside the realm that the supplied bumpstops would still be expected to work properly. No work/tailoring should be necessary.

^ that. You cannot adjust shock body height with xidas. So they should have hit the bump stop way earlier/had a stiffer bump stop. There is only preload adjustment, so if you are in the area of a race/performance ride height, you will be in the bump stops a lot. There is nothing I can do except go up in spring rate to keep me off the bump stops. They just should have been made so that the "hard limit" (max compression) is just before tire contact. Simple as that.

Nope. We have found it faster to run the shocks the way we ship them. Our competition record stands for itself. You are however, welcome to experiment with taller or higher durometer bump stops.
Making a car faster is always a process of experimentation. We did that, engineered Xida Race from scratch. Nothing in that assembly is an oversight or accident.

You need stiffer springs. I'd suggest 1100/500.

I would like to see data backing that up. I find it hard to believe that stuffing a tire in a fender is faster than not doing so.

bad joke~~~~

If you have a stiffer spring like he's mentioning, your tire doesn't bump into fender.

https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/...33/knowing.jpg

but it shouldnt have the ability to do that. thats the thing. whats the point? its useless wheel travel that is only causing damage.

WHAT??11!!oneoneone

hold the phonesso they limit it and the next guy complains about the limited travel cause his car is higher and his tires are smaller? I dunno

That would not be the case. A higher ride height would give you more bump travel. You would still bottom the shock in the same exact place. if you were running a 205/50/15 you would hit the fender even sooner. im running a 40 sidewall.

Your 40 sidewall is only 0.3" diameter smaller than a 205/50r15. So 0.15" earlier. Which is a negligible difference.

either way, you would still bottom the shock in the same place.

You have the race version and not the longer body street version?

Every car is slightly different. A big of tire polishing your shock tower isn't bad. You are working with the tolerances of a "race car", not a street car.

You should always test the full travel of your wheel without bumpstops when making suspension changes.

There are a variety of factors that affect clearances when setting up a shock. Camber, ride height, ELBJ, which control arms, age of bushings. When working with something at the limit then you can't always build a "plug and play" product.

A xida is not much different in this area than any other shock body designed for a 2.25" spring. Any ohlin would do it, a Feal or a Fox might be worse due to 2.5" springs.

In the end it is up to the car builder to make sure that everything clears and functions correctly, not the vendor of a shock.

What are your pinch weld heights set to, MiataMan00?

Don't you dare bring personal responsibility into this! How dare you!

He's running non-stock wheels and non stock tire size on a non stock suspension alignment, using full custom lower ball joints, and is complaining that his non-stock parts don't all fit together without touching anything like stock.

Yeah, it's Emilio's fault. :rolleyes: Hahaha!

yes, race version

If the tire is rubbing n the shock tower that IS bad. Race car, street car, it doesnt matter.

There is no documentation saying that there might be an issue with contact between the shock body and other parts. Expecting hundreds or thousands of customers to do a stoke pass is not reasonable.

Spring size has nothing to do with this

Exept when the vendor is tailoring the shock to work with your specific chassis, and gives you no shock body height adjustment. That just puts the customer in between a rock and a hard place.

4.5 font, 4.75 rear.

Sure. But perhaps it's also the responsibility of a vendor to disclose known compatibility issues with commonly used parts? Perhaps even a safety issue? I imagine bad things would happen if the shock body let go as the front suspension was compressing for a 100 mph corner.

--Ian

So you are saing that a RACE coilover was not designed to be used in conjunction with the same manufactures wheels, and ball joints that they sell and recommend....right.

At least disclose potential contact issues.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Implied_warranty

--Ian

Not true

Also not true. Springs can contact axles, tires can contact the body, different size/offset wheels, different tires can cause different interference issues. Hell different camber settings can be the difference between wrecking a fender and not touching it.

A shock body that can't fit a 2.25" spring will be larger than one build to fit a 2.25" spring.

It has everything to do with shock body size.

:fael:

How is tire contacting the fender ok? If you dont care about your car, sure. But I do.

You can use the existing shock body with a wider spring perch and it will work fine. So larger spring does not mean bigger shock body. The öhlins we build at my work uses the same shock body OD as xidas, but uses a 2.5" spring.

Im not going to cut out my fender well.

Every single time a company came out with a new part that could affect suspension geometry, it is not the burden of the shock manufacturer to make sure their part complies. The company would never win. Exactly why I gave up on making a universal coil mount.

One thing I take away from fabricating and modding: If I did not personally verify fitment, it was my fault when it did not work, no matter how hard I try to place blame. In the end, I was the one who tightened the bolts and drove away.

If we were talking about a stock vehicle, then It would be a different story. If the NB arm hits the shock body with an alignment achieved with OEM adjustments, well then there is a problem.

If you care about going fast you take all the travel you can get. If your shock tower gets a light polishing so be it, run bigger bumpstops.

You missed my point. Any shock body that is built to fit a 2.25" spring would have the issue.

So the Ohlins you build at your work would also have this issue, its not a Xida issue.

Shock body size is not the issue. The contact is happening well into the bump stop. So if you would have limited travel by 1/2", this would not have been an issue.

What im getting from you guys is this, "Everybody who installs aftermarket suspension needs to disassemble the shock and do a stroke pass to verify no contact." Cmon, really...

.....yes, thats exactly what I'm saying.

If you limited travel by a half inch then the shocks would be worse for my car. I want that extra half inch of travel.

:facepalm:

You got a race car with race parts many of which alter all sorts of clearances/geometry. Surely at some point you can see how the burden of making sure it all plays well together would be on you, no?

I think we're all in agreement that 949 should have done everyone a favor and released a PSA about this when this was identified, but otherwise....

again, just a thought. I know I'd be really mad if I discovered this on my own car never even thinking it might be a possibility, so I totally understand the anger/frustration.

Are you not stuffing your tire into your fender?

Nope. I get a bit of a polish on my shock tower when I hit big bumps, but otherwise no fender contact.

In the rear I had some upper control arm to body contact, but the 5lb sledge fixed that real quick.

what are your camber settings?

I think im running 3.5*?

Car has been on jackstands since October though. Hoping to change that this weekend!

Aidan also has an NA, so clearances on a bunch of stuff are going to be different.

--Ian

It has been asked and its still not stated.... Spring rates on the xidas you have are 700/400?

Another reason why checking clearance is necessary

fix it pls. then come to laguna and watch your fenders get shafted as you go down the corkscrew :)

900/500

I've been down the corkscrew with xidas before. Also have run Hoosiers on my car at autox, and slammed bumpstops. So far fenders are untouched.