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Xidas rubbing on FUCA! HELP!

 
Old 07-12-2018, 04:13 PM
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NB1/Sadfab LCA offsets masterrace trackrecordz checking in!


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Old 07-12-2018, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
Nope. Other than a few Exocet owners deleting the require Exomotive shock spacers and having multiple problems (broken ball joints/tires rubbing chassis, messed up handling/ FUCA-shock interference). Deleting the Exomotive shock spacers allows the F & R suspension to compress about 2" further than it does on a Miata which as you might imagine, creates all sorts of problems.

The car we have in our shop matches Georges set up. Xida Gen 2, ELBJ, eccentrics adjusted outward.. has about 1/2" clearance. We aren't able to replicate it unless we turn the eccentrics full positive camber. Thus why I asked for pics of Georges eccentrics, which he posted. Dan, Sonny and John had no reports or knowledge of an endemic issue. We genuinely don't know why his car has interference unless something is bent. So as I stated earlier, it's was not on our radar and still seems to only affect a narrow range of users with ELBJ and any shock.
concealer404 beat me to it. I'm 100% understand that it is the person who is modifying a cars job/duty/whatever to make sure everything fits, BUT if you knew about this before hand (and according to yourself you did) why not warn people beforehand?

Damage control is fine but I have a feeling there are more then 2 people that will post here with the same problem...
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Old 07-12-2018, 06:17 PM
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I'm concerned.

I have an MSM (NB2), ELBJs and Xidas, hasn't seen track work, but is driven daily and probably have about 5k KM (~3k Miles). I'm only at -2* camber in front. I'll be checking my **** tomorrow. I did put in new control arms (with SADFab retrofix kit) at the same times as the ELBJs, not sure if they were NB2 arms though.

I'll report back.
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Old 07-12-2018, 07:10 PM
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Yeah, a timely heads-up for me, with ELBJs about to go in, along with a more track-oriented alignment and new shocks. I have a set of NB8A arms, probably swap them in to sidestep the issue.
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Old 07-12-2018, 08:41 PM
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As Dan and I mentioned, we never saw a single set of defined variables that caused interference. I never personally saw a Miata with interference, just Exocets. No clear signs of an endemic problem that might affect Miata owners with NB2 FUCA.
I had heard of FUCA on Miatas but not seen pictures. We had one race car being set up for nationals with longer springs on one side and radical wedge alignment. That car was light so perches were low. On the side with the abnormal long spring, the perch hit the NB2 FUCA so we notched it. Body didn't hit though. Not too many Miata owners run their cars 5/8" lower on one side with different length springs left to right. So that data point was tossed out in my mind.

In other words, the miataturbo court of public opinion keeps asking us if we "knew of the issue". The deal is we never saw an issue. Just a weird, isolated interference that we didn't quite know the cause of. So no cause for alarm.

Gen 2 Xida are 1.5mm (.060") larger radius than OEM Bilstein, So the interference, it of happens it not endemic to any particular shock.

George contacted us about a week ago so we looked at our car that matches his. Same setup and ours has roughly 18mm more clearance than his. 12mm static plus the 6 or so mm his are gouged. Dan, John and I assumed he had his eccentrics turned max positive. Only explanation we could think of.
Which is why I kept asking for images several days ago. His image shows nearly max negative. Doesn't add up and we're as baffled as you all are. So we here at Supermiata don't actually know why his FUCA hit his shocks. We can't duplicate the interference here without turning the eccentrics max positive.

Our best guess is that the control arms flex when bottomed. Xida Race being shorter, allow the FUCA to arc closer to shock at full bump. More likely to happen exiting the Corkscrew at MRLS. We raced there once in PT, once in S2 Supermiata, many Miatas at MRLS laps. Never any contact. Not sure what FUCA we had. The one variable amongst the hundreds of Miata owners over the last decade with NB2 FUCA and Xida Race with no reports of contact, and George is the number of laps at MRLS. So maybe that's it.

Anybody got solid evidence explaining why his shocks got gouged or experienced the same issue? Everyone has already guessed (including us) so don't bother reposting guesses.

Meanwhile, and as a precaution while we figure out whats up, we added a note to our ELBJ page and posted a pic of the NB2 FUCA tab on our facebook page. Although I'm starting to think ELBJ have nothing to do with it. My guess is it's spindle and control arm flex at severe bottoming that gouged Georges shocks. In which case some packers or shock spacers might fix it. Only reason I can think of that we never saw it on our cars. As most of you know, we spend a lot of time on track and usually go pretty fast. So a decent data sample.
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Last edited by emilio700; 07-12-2018 at 08:55 PM.
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Old 07-12-2018, 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by eddyc49 View Post
I have the same rubbing issue with my xida gs on an nb2 running poly bushings but an otherwise stock suspension and factory style alignment. Thankfully, I saw this thread, and i had only put on a few hundred miles so the damage is minimal..
It sounds like the only factor that's common across all the cases posted (in this thread at least) is NB2 control arms with their reduced clearance.

Possibly it's been so rare / hasn't been showing up until recent years due to the harder Miatas are being put too (way grippier tires than OEM/early days, way stiffer spring rates), the age / flex of control arms, and alloy shocks showing the damage more easily than steel OEM ones.

OP is upset about what's happened, but I think it's kind of part of racing / modifying cars. Things break and it costs money, often unforseen due to things being used well outside their original design intentions.
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Old 07-12-2018, 09:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Junkwhale View Post
It sounds like the only factor that's common across all the cases posted (in this thread at least) is NB2 control arms with their reduced clearance.
Wrong. Ian just noticed that his NB1 arms are having the same issue.
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Old 07-12-2018, 09:31 PM
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Mine have two track sessions on them (not days, sessions), both at Thunderhill. It hasn't been to Laguna with the xidas yet, and I don't tend to hit the berms that hard so I don't think it's bottoming.

It is possible mine is installation damage, I still need to investigate it further.

---Ian
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Old 07-12-2018, 09:33 PM
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I will add my data point
Current setup: 1990 ST Miata
Gen 2 Xidas 1000/500
superseded NB2 FUCAs (bought after a fender bender bent some suspension)
ELBJ
15x9 6ULs with 205/50/15 R7s.
5.25" ride hight race ready. (Depending on tracks. Sebring is bumpy so we jack the car up)
I will check my notes on average camber settings between tracks (car is currently being repaired)

I have zero clearance issues and I polish the perches. 225/45s tended to rub worse.

When (re)building then suspension we cycle it to check clearances. I thought that was common sense when setting up suspension. Or at least when spending that much money on parts.
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Old 07-12-2018, 09:35 PM
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Originally Posted by MiataMan00 View Post
Wrong. Ian just noticed that his NB1 arms are having the same issue.
Doesn't really help your case.
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Old 07-12-2018, 10:29 PM
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Uh, actually it does. Because it means that nb1 arms might also be a factor, not just nb2.
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Old 07-12-2018, 10:34 PM
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Originally Posted by AA-Ron View Post
I thought that was common sense when setting up suspension. Or at least when spending that much money on parts.
Its a cookie cutter build, if other people with my EXACT same parts aren't noticing an issue. Why would I think that there might be an issue with mine? I looked everything over after my initial test drive, but again, the damaged area is completely out of view.
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Old 07-12-2018, 11:00 PM
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Originally Posted by MiataMan00
Its a cookie cutter build, if other people with my EXACT same parts aren't noticing an issue. Why would I think that there might be an issue with mine? I looked everything over after my initial test drive, but again, the damaged area is completely out of view.
There is countless cars across every generation running this exact setup in race configuration winning multiple championships that cannot reproduce your problem. So my thought is there in fact something wrong with your setup.

If I were in your situation I would be checking my control arms (measurements can be found in other threads) and all hardware to see if anything is bent.

I personally would do root cause analysis before jumping to conclusions but I digress.
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Old 07-12-2018, 11:48 PM
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Originally Posted by MiataMan00 View Post
Wrong. Ian just noticed that his NB1 arms are having the same issue.
Okay, it's a more general issue- common factor: NB Miata. I.e. I don't think it's been narrowed down to any particular cause.

Yes the xidas are what got damaged (and sorry to hear that, it's an expensive part to replace), but I don't see how xidas are a cause of this any more than any other shock (given it happens with bilsteins and with OEM ball joints / alignment etc)

Last edited by Junkwhale; 07-13-2018 at 12:02 AM.
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Old 07-13-2018, 02:00 AM
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So I haven't had enough time to do a full motion check, but I did a quick and dirty check by lifting the front of the car with the rolling bridge jack and setting it down with one wheel on a ramp and some wood, letting the other go all the way down. This compressed the suspension a ton -- to around the point it gets in steady state cornering. The clearances on the shock didn't change much at all, there's still half an inch between it and the A-arm. I'll lose some of that clearance due to bushing deflection during cornering, but I don't see how it could be that much. At this point I think it's more likely that I gouged up the shock when installing it than that it rubbed.

I'm probably going to wrap tape around it and take it out for one session at Laguna on Sunday and see if it shows signs of rubbing.

--Ian
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Old 07-13-2018, 12:19 PM
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This might have been mentioned, but MiataMan00 have you checked your sub-frame for rips/cracks/tears on the FLCA?
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Old 07-14-2018, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Junkwhale View Post
but I don't see how xidas are a cause of this any more than any other shock
I believe its related to bump travel. Since it happens when the shock is in bump stop.

Originally Posted by Junkwhale View Post
(given it happens with bilsteins and with OEM ball joints / alignment etc)
I actually haven't didn't know about this. Where did you see this?

Originally Posted by flier129 View Post
This might have been mentioned, but MiataMan00 have you checked your sub-frame for rips/cracks/tears on the FLCA?
I have. Everything looks good.
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Old 07-14-2018, 02:37 PM
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Having said everything above....... Emilio, would it have been that hard to offer the guy a replacement at cost? It would have cost you nothing but a few minutes of your time to ship it. The sale was already made so you're not even loosing that. Way less work than the effort put into the posts here, and this **** show would of likely never happened. George might have even been happy with that outcome.
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Old 07-14-2018, 07:49 PM
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^ I was flat out told "we (949) don't have any trouble selling them (xidas) at their current price."

I even tried going directly to Tractive, no luck there either.
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Old 07-14-2018, 08:03 PM
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But it is in no way, shape, or form the duty of 949racing to warn its customers of potential compatibility issues.

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Edit: That was supposed to be sarcastic I'd like to go back to 5 cats now

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