Pre-Order Thread: Trackspeed Engineering Triple-Pass Dual-Row Radiator - $449
 

This has been a very long time in the making, but after a supplier switch and several prototypes later we finally have a finished product we are extremely happy with.

Trackspeed Engineering Triple-Pass Dual-Row 76mm Radiator – $449

Attachment 194243

We are now taking pre-orders for these units. Don’t delay – these will be an in-stock item but pre-order customers will be the first units shipped out when they arrive. We do expect to sell the first batch of units very quickly. Send an email to info “at” trackspeed engineering “dot” com with the subject “Radiator Preorder” and we will send an invoice out. See below for tech information and empirical results.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

This radiator has been designed and tested to keep Miatas cool, regardless of the application. Whether it's a Spec Miata in a draft or a monster-power turbo car with a monster-sized intercooler blocking radiator flow, this radiator has been tested and proven to maintain safe cooling temps in all conditions.
Designed in-house, our unit differs from many current off-the-shelf radiators in two major ways. First, it is a cross-flow unit. Instead of a top/bottom endtank design, the coolant is cycled through the radiator from side to side. Second, it is a dual-core radiator, using a pair of smaller cores over a single larger core. The result is a radiator that offers significant cooling improvements with little or no added weight. Don’t let looks deceive you – our massive 76mm unit weighs approximately the same as a Koyo 55mm unit when filled with water (~21lbs).

The benefits don’t stop with the construction – a year of testing and R&D have allowed us to tweak and fine-tune this radiator in several different ways. In order to gather more air, our unit is taller than the factory unit, bringing the bottom of the radiator closer to the OEM undertray. Airflow management is hugely important in a fast track Miata, and we have not ignored this fact in our design process. Our radiators also come equipped with a 16psi cap and a standard oversized filler neck to make filling easier. The radiator drops into place just as the factory unit does, re-using OEM mounts from your factory radiator on the top and bottom. Large front sway bars provide no issue – an OEM fan with a trimmed shroud or low-profile aftermarket fans will fit on the radiator, even if your car is equipped with a large swaybar. A single OEM fan will locate correctly to allow OEM intake fitment for Spec Miatas. The radiator is compatible with the factory A/C condenser and lines, allowing fast track cars to travel to and from the track in comfort without putting their motors at risk. (The A/C cooling fan is deleted in order to ensure proper fitment of the primary fan.)

Using this radiator, our shop Spec Miata, a 1.6 car, showed coolant temps of approximately 170*F (160*F thermostat) – in 100*F ambient conditions. On a weekend where numerous Koyo 55mm-equipped cars were cutting sessions short due to overheating, and at least one car suffered a motor failure attributed to high coolant temps, we were able to keep the car cool enough to maintain maximum power even after long sessions. It’s a well-known fact that Spec Miatas make more power with lower coolant temps, so for tight-draft running a monster radiator is a must-have item.

My own 350whp/300wtq turbo machine spent the summer running 20-25 minute long stints at full power, with coolant temps never venturing beyond 210*F – a single cooldown lap would bring those temps down to approximately ~175*F. High ambient temperatures always meant truncated sessions with my old 2” CSF core, but regardless of air or track temperatures the car stays cool and safe, thanks to our massively efficient unit.

As with all Trackspeed Engineering products, this is a product that we use and abuse in our own shop cars, and we are proud to offer the same products to fellow enthusiasts.

Are these also a direct swap for the NB?

No, they are totally different radiators. We are already into prototyping on the NB version, no ETA as of yet.

I take it my thick Spals won't fit?:
http://www.jaycorptech.com/pc-57-14-...th-shroud.aspx

Not sure. I will know more about NB fan fitment once we get a prototype in a stock-motor car - the first one was a custom dual-pass LS-specific version. On NAs, you can fit most any low-profile Spal, but it's gotta be low-profile. I am using a 14" low-pro curved blade on mine with no shroud.

I have seen and used the NA one in Sav's turbo car. I've also seen and "experienced" the NB V8 proto as well.

In fact, when I drove Sav's car, he had leaky radiator cap so it wasn't even pressurized. Temps are going to be even lower than what he has been seeing.

These are absolutely gorgeous units and handle the most extreme situations with ease.

Got on track this weekend with this radiator, temps never went above 200*F in 94* ambient. I am glad this is in my car, first time I was really able to drive for 20 min without ANY cool down laps.

What did you have before? What fans before?

Sav, does this rad use any epoxy? Or all swaged(?) construction ?

All brazed, no epoxy.

koyo 55mm w/ reroute both stock fans wired to come on together. Now ive got two spal fans and this radiator. Both setups were fully ducted. However I currently have a v-mounted intercooler to make room for brake ducts.

Hmm, not quite an apples to apples comparison...

Which Spal fans?

Agreed, i am not entirely sure i got them from Sav, maybe he can chime in. Two of them fit across the radiator though.

10" straightblade lowpros.

Apples to apples comparos are all done in the Spec Miata - OEM ducting, single OEM fan, no change except the radiator itself. Temp drops of 40+ degrees going from a Godspeed to the 76mm twinrow.

Where did you buy those? FM?

I bought them locally. We can also get them through our suppliers.

What sort of oil temps are you seeing and what oil cooler do you have?

I've been using an Rx7 cooler forever. Temps in the 240-250 range.

Hey Sav, what about the single row version? How does it perform vs the 56mm Koyo, etc.? According to your info in the other thread it is about 7 lbs lighter ...

Just want to chime in. We just received our triple pass for one of our race cars. Very well made piece. After doing lots of research myself, I believe its the best Miata race radiator on the market at any price.

Holy Jebus, that is one chubby mofo...

Question - is anyone running Evans NPG+ or NPG-R with this radiator or any other double/triple pass radiator yet? I have a concern about flow/pressure since the Evans has a higher viscosity and runs on zero pressure.

Zero pressure should not be a factor.

The increased viscosity will be - but whether it is significant or not ... proof's in the pudding.

Just recommended this Rad to someone. Hope he gets it so I can see it!

I am using just water and water wetter.

Andrew,

Did the tweaking and experimentation include playing with the number of tubes per inch, fins per inch, and coolant and air turbulator design?

Well razors go up to five blades, so it's pretty obvious where things are going...

Gathering that data would be prohibitively expensive, at least for us. We could have tripled or quadrupled the number of prototypes, played with different cores and changed all those variables, and done lab-grade testing to see what worked best, but we want to sell a $450 radiator, not a $700 radiator.

Did you compare to the springfield dyno?

I'm not doubting that the Trackspeed rad is possibly the best of the new crop of rads.
Let me rephrase my Q - which variables did you play with to end up where you are?

And what tubes per inch and fins per inch are you at now?

Oh, and I noticed you have the NB version on the site - is it really available?

Lastly, how did your rad end up being the same weight as the 55 mm Koyo with water, despite being way thicker?

Cheers.

Supplier change and fitment tweaks took the longest, but the biggest one was the first one we made: single row vs. dual row. Our testing showed that two cores is king, end of story. We want to sell a radiator that outperforms the competition, and a single-row triple pass wasn't up to our expectations. The dual-row exceeds them.

Having said that, the single row may not perform any better than a cheap eBay radiator, but it does weigh a bunch less (like 5lbs less than the double). I will say that we have a drawing done for the singles, and if there is some real demand we can have them made, but for now we want to focus on the dual-row.

I will take exact measurements and let you know tomorrow.

NAs are available for preorder, NBs are in development. We will probably do one more NB proto for a Socal track junkie, and then it will be available for preorder as well.

Magic. ;)

It's partially water weight, partially just the heft of the Koyo. Our unit is heavier by 1lb because it's larger, but the endtanks are smaller since they don't have to run the full length of the radiator top and bottom. We carry 7lbs of water, the Koyo has to carry 8lbs. Not only do we crush the Koyo on CLTs, we do it with less water in the system.

Thanks.

BTW I don't see the logic of making another "me too" radiator that has the same performance as the cheapies.

Any thoughts why a dual row is better than a single row of the same total width?

It's just a theory, but it may have to do with pure surface area of cooling rows against the water in the cores. Aircooled engines follow the same idea - instead of trying to maximize airflow over the fins on the head, they simply include as many fins as they can. Surface area is hugely important, more than people might initially think.

Good to hear, I was just about to bail and order one of the others.

~20 fins per inch, ~2.2 tubes per inch.

when do u start shippin these out?

I'm definitely planning to purchase one next week if they are available. I just sold my Koyo 55mm. I instruct at local Texas tracks and thinking of going FI. Either way I want the best cooling for the buck to help deal with the Texas heat.

GB over/closed?

If so then maybe its time for another.

Word up yo

We are still taking orders, but after recieving interest for a dozen units we ended up with one paid order. We are going to order stock on this item soon, so if you are interested get your order in ASAP.

Should the order be placed right on the website Sav?

A little random, but is anyone else having this problem with TSE's site?
Attachment 191542

That's fine, yeah. We will contact you when they ship.

Curly, I duplicated the problem in Google Chrome but not in Firefox. We will look into it.

Sorry guys, I dropped the ball on this one; the majority of our site is delivered to you securely and our SSL expired a couple days ago but has been renewed now so it should be fixed soon. The website also hasn't gotten any attention lately, we have been so busy between moving into the new shop and the many projects we are working on (both cars and products).

Edit: Should be fixed now.

Ok I placed an order for one through the website.

So any idea on when they will be ready to ship?

Was this question ever answered? I'm planning to try out the waterless coolant when I build up my FI for track use.

.

Google shows a few folks that like twin-core radiators for Evans over single-core, but since I have no personal experience with the Evans coolant I can't give a good answer either way.

e: Oops, you said pass, not core. Again, not sure as we have no experience with the Evans stuff.

So have these been produced yet?

Is Trackspeed Engineering going out of business?

Have you tried sending a PM or an email? I can't find either from you. Usually those forms of communication work a lot better than posting in this thread (which I only check if the post pops up on the main forum screen).

I don't know when these are going to ship. The order has been placed with our supplier but he has not given me a hard ETA yet.

You're not subscribed to your own thread? No email notifications?

Ok thanks for the update.

FYI, these are in stock and ready to ship.

Are you referring to the NA version only? NB still being tested?

I'm sporting one of these now. No track time yet, but I hit it kinda hard the other day. 5000' of elevation gain in 15-20min of 8/10ths driving on a ~75* day. No ducting, and a slightly busted up stock undertray. Temps hovered around 197-201*.

Hoping to have NB units in-stock before August.

i just got one and it's awesome looking...hope to have it in over the next month or so.

Is there any way to mount 2 smaller fans?
My concern is a/c effectiveness - cooling for the condenser while idling in traffic.

I'm sure there is a way to mount two smaller fans, yes. Take a quick measurement across the core to see exactly how wide the combined fans can be.