...thread's dead baby, thread's dead.

This is pretty much exactly what I plan to do...crank wheel and hall sensor in hand already.

I haven't messed with the crank wheel settings in MS yet but it's supposed to be stupid easy.

This is the first thing I'm doing after COPS *as soon as* I can get my car to fire up. I'll let you know how it goes.





BTW...I heard about Mike's herpes infection in his eye...do I even need to ask how you managed to do that?

Let me know when you get those settings because I'm dumb and can't do it alone.

learn: http://msextra.com/doc/ms1extra/MS_E...l.htm#twotrigs

Actually it looks like I want this since I'm eliminating the CAS.

There are a few things I still don't understand:

• Why do I want to invert spark suddenly?
• How do I measure the trigger position and trigger return position (looks like I have to buy precision equipment)?
• I guess I have to grind off a non-TDC tooth since MS can't trigger off a missing tooth?
• Do I need to position at tooth at TDC or not (adjusting cranking angle with a timing light should do this, right...should I start with a protractor to get a ballpark # to start with)?
• How do we calculate dwell from "trigger return"?
• Are there enough teeth to run "trigger return"?
• If MS1 only sees 2-teeth, then I assume we need to time base return since 30*BTD is probably too much?

This is 10x more confusing than I thought it would be. I may have just wasted $100, lol...which is still cheaper than the CAS I'll have to buy.

http://msextra.com/doc/ms1extra/MS_E.../60-2wheel.jpg

So I made a pretty picture; notice that #1 is ground off. Are these educated guesses accurate:
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._2351740_n.jpg

• Wheel decoder teeth = 12
• Missing teeth = 1
• Triggerr A = 8
• Trigger Return Pos A = 0
• Trigger B=2
• Trigger Return Pos B = 0
• Crank angle will be ~25* depending on the timing light

I'm still not sure about inverting spark and what dwell should be. Am I correct on these numbers? Why can't I add more teeth?

spark output and dwell should remain the same IIRC.

Well...um...a wrong answer is catastrophic, right? I don't like being the first to do things at the cost of $1000 per mistake considering the cost of an MSpnp and COPS, plus parking the car indefinitely.

I looked for reference to the spark output, and i see:

You are not driving the coils from the MS directly, you are still using the ignitors built into the toyota cops to drive the spark. So however your current spark output settings are set they remain the same.

likewise, the dwell just has to do with your coil settings, since you didnt change coils, dont touch it.

re: timing belt stretch

Go to your car and set the MS to test mode with 10* timing. Use timing light, look at timing marks at idle. Rev to 5000 RPM+, repeat. Is is still at 10*? If so, no prob, if not, your timing table is offset by that much linearly through the rev range.

When you go crank trigger, set it up so it's always at 10* as per above, then fix your timing map as per any error seen above.

re: crank pickup - why not just use the NB one?

that's why I use the timing latency code ;)

lol, looks like there is no way I'm getting out of buying a $300 CAS if that's even the problem.

or buy a shitty old used one and cut out either three teeth of one ring, or one tooth of the other and use that signal just to let the MS know where TDC is.

What's a $300 CAS?

Then i have to open up the board. I'm looking for a simple solution here, not learning to solder $800 electronics the week before a track day. I also don't want to buy bigger injectors for the sequential injection and spend another hour on the dyno tuning.

The missing tooth does not have to be at TDC. You will install the trigger wheel, set the engine to #1 TDC, and count teeth between the missing tooth and sensor. The location of the missing tooth compared to TDC is not important.

Here is the MS1/Extra wheel decoder settings:

http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms1extra/....htm#wheeldecr

MS1/E decoder settings are kind of confusing. Setting this up with an MS2 or MS3 is worlds less complex. Here is a link to the MS1/E decoder spreadsheet, which helps me a lot:

http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms1extra/...eeldecoder.xls

There would be no need for hardware modification inside the MSPNP. There would be no need to touch your ignition output settings. There would be no need to retain the stock CAS with an MS1 running this trigger wheel. An MS2, DIYPNP, or MS3 could be set up to run sequential fuel and/or ignition with this trigger wheel and a modified CAS.

I played with this earlier and its severely added to my confusion:
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._2351740_n.jpg
From spreadsheet:

• Number of teeth per crank rev 12
• Number of missing teeth 1
• Number of cylinders 4
• Tooth number aligned with sensor at TDC 8
• Crank angle when missing tooth at sensor 240

shouldn't "crank angle when missing tooth at sensor" be 120? Are my tooth number labels incorrect?

Maybe it's BTDC and not ATDC?

you know, I have an NA cam sensor that's set up to be a sync pulse only from back when I used it to run sequential fuel on my Tec3. It's just sitting in the back of my head as dead weight....

I have a spare CAS or two...I think I even have one that only returns the first trigger, which caused my failaids after swapping in your old motor. You are welcome to any and all.


Also, if you want to avoid costly mistakes with your motor, we can do this on mine first. I'm not running boost, and not too worried about the motor...hehe. This really is the first thing I'm doing after figuring out why the bastard won't fire up on MS2.

Well then by all means, please do the leg-work this weekend while I'm sitting on the beach in Cancun for my sister's wedding, piss drunk on vintage pizzle, while levnubbin uses his mouth on me.

Anyone get this going on a 9093 MSPNP, Ive got some free dyno time and would love to have this on my car for it.

Someone spoon feed this to me please. What do i need, where do i need to wire it too.

Is this wheel being used in conjunction with the CAS or can you use this new wheel fully alone with the cas?
Thanks

Read the thread...yes and yes. Pull this shit again and you're banned.

It appears the preferred method would be to use the full wheel in conjunction with a modified CAS for MS, or with the OEM sensors if you are using an AEM.

Figure out how to set it up on MS1, bitch.

This

I was wondering because of the possibility of moving the exhaust cam to the intake side on a 1.6l

"Was" wondering or "wonder"?

With MS1 just fit the crank wheel & sensor, there's no need for a cam sensor as you're not able to run sequential injection anyway.

Setup is easy, just tell it you have a generic wheel with 12 teeth and 1 missing tooth

RTFM NOOB :P http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms1extra/....htm#wheeldecr

With MSII you'll need to trim one of the CMP tabs off I can't remember which one.

Factory '94 cars are sequential injection.

Just to appease you homos, I've arranged to have a local member donate his MM9495 MSPNP car for me to mess with to get this working. I expect weekly worship.

people still run MS-I?

Not with a MS1 they don't. That's my point. Hustler has a MSPNP doesn't he?

Batch injection therefore a piece of piss.

Says the guy who just fried his MS3 and swapped back to MS-I.

dunno what you're talking about.

Really?:brain:

its possible.

Gawd how've you managed that Brain?

Very carefully.

Thanks, I'll have a tranny service you next time I'm in Cali.

Is anyone running one of these with a megasquirt yet? 12-1 w/ a modded cas?

Mine is still sitting in a box.

Step one, cut a hole in the box.

Just a little FYI for anyone running this on a NA block, the hole in the oil pump where the crank sensor mounts is not tapped on the early cars. I saw reference on m.net to using a m5x.8 tap, that's too small... I used a m6x1.0 tap and stole a harmonic balancer bolt off a spare motor in my garage. Then I put a couple washers behind the sensor (theres a lip on the oil pump that keeps the sensor from sitting flush) and bolted it on... Here's a quick phone picture in case anyone isn't sure where this mounts (I couldn't figure it out by the pictures from this thread, its obvious when you've got the motor on a stand though)

In for MS set-up info. It's been do long, someone do all the work for me, for free.

FYI, 99-ish 626s share the crank sensor plug... A lot easier to find at pick n pull too.

So to get this set up in a 1.6 (1991.5 - big nose), all I would need is MS1v3, TSE trigger wheel, and 99 NB crank sensor?

How do you accommodate for the added thickness of the trigger wheel and pulley alignment?

I can't speak for the setup requirements, I haven't had time to do anything on that front and I won't have time for quite a while.

You should use a '96+ pulley mount - it's a bit thinner to accomodate the trigger wheel.

does anybody know the pinout of the crank sensor? 3 wires, I think it is red blue and black... so black is ground, blue is signal and red is 12V?

Glad that this was revived. As I was just talking to my coworker about this today. I am going to be installing an EMS4 into my car and would like to put this on as well.

I have an 01 stock sensors. Not boosted at this time. Long story dont ask. Has any one figured out what is best to either leave all 12 or sand one off. If I need to remove one triger which one is optimal?

Have a great day,
Jared

With VVT definitely you need to remove one tooth or add one. Which one... is critical.

That's what I thought. Any ideas on which tooth is better?

Have a great day,
Jared

My answer to that question may be specific to the AEM .......

That is what I am putting in my car. So what's your answer?

Have a great day,
Jared

any updates on what you need to run it on a 1.6 long nose?

"-1" arrow points to best tooth to remove for a 12-1 setup for an AEM S1. Is it 50° ATDC #2 and #3, aka 130° BTDC #1 and #4.

"+1" arrow points to best tooth to add for a 12+1 setup for an AEM S1. It is 25-30% (7° - 10°) of the way between the tooth before and the tooth after (spins clockwise). It comes after the 20° ATDC #2/#3 tooth.

There are 2 requirements:
- the missing or added tooth must be away from any cam rising edges, VVT included, over its full range of phase. This is why the missing/added tooth is in the 9 o'clock area of the wheel instead of the 3 o'clock area.

- in the case of the missing tooth, the AEM will NOT time off of the missing tooth and the 5 remaining teeth that are multiples of 60° spaced from it. That is, the AEM treats a 12-1 as a 6 tooth wheel (the 6 are the "intact" ones). You want the intact teeth to be the ones that includes 40° BTDC, so that it will be the last tooth before the typical WOT spark timing of 30° to 10° BTDC. If the missing tooth is from the set that includes 40° BTDC, the last tooth the AEM will time off of before your spark event will be 70° BTDC and timing accuracy will suffer during crank acceleration.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...1&d=1378050819