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Old 01-31-2011, 11:00 AM   #1
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Arrow 110 MPG Ford Mustang E85 Hybrid at Washington Auto Show



On January 19, 2011, The Auto Channel received an e-mail from Douglas Pelmear president, founder and chief engineer of HP2g, an Ohio grass roots company that developed a 110 MPG E85 V8 Hybrid Mustang. He told us that “due to his inability to raise additional working capital he would have to abandon his good work.”

He couldn’t raise capital despite the fact that his Mustang actually gets 110MPG, and despite the fact that his vehicle uses 350x less gasoline than a Toyota Prius, and despite the fact that for the past 3 years he has been trying to get an OEM interested in his breakthrough technology, despite all of this he told me “he had to close his company”.

Well, quiet frankly, this really pissed us off and in response published an open letter to Energy Secretary Steven Chu (See Shame on you Steven Chu) that took him to task, for not supporting Pelmear’s American Solution for our gasoline addiction, while spending billions of dollars on fairy-tale EV development, a diversion from E85 the real drop-in replacement for gasoline.

Apparently others felt the same way as we did and after being on the NBC morning Show talking about the HP2g plant closing, he was invited to the Washington DC Auto Show.

Here is what Doug had to say: The HP2g car was driven to the show in the middle of the snow storm last Wednesday night. We, along with several other people, were caught 60 miles out of town stuck in traffic waiting on the plows to get through to clear the roads. This was no ordinary snow storm. There were layers of ice, slush and snow. As cars were forced off to the side of the road, people began to walk home.

Others were not so lucky. As we drove closer to DC, it looked as though a bomb had gone off. Cars, trucks, semis were tossed everywhere you looked. There were miles of traffic in front of us and behind us with all the exit ramps snowed in. Sitting in my car, I knew we had to do something. I grabbed our shovel out of the car, went car door to car door gathering people to help move a Semi that was stuck in the middle of the road in front of us. Together, we pushed the Semi to move down over to the road and drove on to the show.

HP2g is in the Washington, DC Auto Show Advance Technology Super Highway Hybrid section. It was left with the salt on the car to show it is a REAL car!

I want to Thank everyone who helped out on Highway 270 on January 26, 2011. Together, we pushed though the storm to arrive just in time to the show.

I am telling people to write their senators and congressman that banks are closing small business by not loaning the money and I am an example. (This is my Hail Mary pass to try to stay in the game.)


Hang in there Doug, maybe the good guys can win after-all.



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Old 01-31-2011, 11:05 AM   #2
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Has anyone actually documented the mileage it gets? Or are they just claims.
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Old 03-15-2011, 11:17 PM   #3
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Has anyone actually documented the mileage it gets? Or are they just claims.
+1. Just looking at the car I'm certainly skeptical. A foxbody mustang isn't exactly light, even by modern standards, and it's got the aerodynamics of a brick. Not to mention the decrease in gas mileage you see with ethanol based fuels. I'm calling BS.
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Old 03-15-2011, 11:41 PM   #4
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I think its some kinda ricer math... He's probably only counting the 15% gasoline in that figure and ignoring the 85% ethanol... So sure, it takes 110 miles to burn a gallon of gas, meanwhile he also burned 5.7 gallons of ethanol. (Works out to 16.5 mpg if you follow my reasoning) Lol
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Old 03-15-2011, 11:44 PM   #5
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This thing has popped up every other year for the last decade. If it was that great, don't you think he would have found found funding by now?
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Old 03-16-2011, 12:19 AM   #6
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Every gas station would be e85 only if this was legit.
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Old 03-16-2011, 11:10 AM   #7
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Sounds cool. Reading his .pdf patent application, it seems like he's using magnets to attract & repel the piston along with cylinder deactivation.
http://www.hp2g.com/images/US20100288214A1.pdf

In there he says he can get 3-5lbs force from the magnets. Take 4lbs as an average, time 8 cylinders, times half the stroke (assume 3" stroke of the 302 even though he's running a 4.8...possibly stroked with a smaller bore?), you'll get 48ft-lbs torque...adequate to maintain highway speeds. Add cylinder deactivation for the high compression E85 engine ("400hp/500ftlbs") when you need it to recharge the electromagnet batteries...etc. Sounds possible I guess.

If it did work you'd think he'd do it to a metro or something. I do like his view of a rotary with the electromagnets. hehe.
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Old 03-16-2011, 11:28 AM   #8
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This thing has popped up every other year for the last decade. If it was that great, don't you think he would have found found funding by now?
You think "they" really want us getting that kind of MPG?

That would mean big oil would suffer a HUGE blow. So would the government. Think about it. If we revamped all our stations to a new type of fuel and everyone was consistently getting 100MPG on average, that would change the country entirely. I'm sure more than a few people will do anything they can to keep things the way the are.
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Old 03-16-2011, 11:37 AM   #9
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I'm convinced that getting insane MPG is entirely possible but some in the government and in the oil industry constantly keep the technology 'swept under the rug' so-to-say...because they know it will cut into their profits too much. They enjoy the huge kick-backs, profits and control they have of the industry. Just watch "Who Killed The Electric Car?" and you'll see how much bullshit goes into this. I also believe that the whole 10% ethanol blend is just to put money in the pockets of the oil industry and corn farmers and that there is absolutely no interest for the good of the consumer or the enviornment in it, it's just about money and greed.
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Old 03-16-2011, 11:41 AM   #10
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I truely hope this is true and he has created something amazing.
I do find it odd that this story reappears consistently...he should show up to the dragon's den.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboTim View Post
Sounds cool. Reading his .pdf patent application, it seems like he's using magnets to attract & repel the piston along with cylinder deactivation.
http://www.hp2g.com/images/US20100288214A1.pdf

In there he says he can get 3-5lbs force from the magnets. Take 4lbs as an average, time 8 cylinders, times half the stroke (assume 3" stroke of the 302 even though he's running a 4.8...possibly stroked with a smaller bore?), you'll get 48ft-lbs torque...adequate to maintain highway speeds. Add cylinder deactivation for the high compression E85 engine ("400hp/500ftlbs") when you need it to recharge the electromagnet batteries...etc. Sounds possible I guess.

If it did work you'd think he'd do it to a metro or something. I do like his view of a rotary with the electromagnets. hehe.
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Old 03-16-2011, 12:09 PM   #11
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I think this is absolutely, positively, complete and utter bullshit. Seriously.

1. Ethanol isn't NEARLY as efficient as gasoline at producing power.
2. Magnets? Really? Come on kids...
3. It's a V8 FOX BODY MUSTANG... that gets 110 mpg? Um...

Again, if this really was the super-duper unicorns-and-rainbows ultimate solution, we would all be driving it by now. I don't see any independent testing here. Anyone who thinks there's a Big Oil Conspiracy is mildly loony. Plus, I can't put any stock in that piece of crap called "Who Killed The Electric Car" - a completely biased waste of time that conveniently didn't address the real problems with EVs, namely charge times, real-world range, battery life, and what the **** you do with the batteries once they expire. There were no hard facts or tests in that piece of ****, only glowing reviews from ******* Hollywood hippies.

There... I'm done ranting.
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Old 03-16-2011, 12:17 PM   #12
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I think it would be awesome, but I do think that someone who is interested would find a way to black ball it. How would the electronic components inside the engine hold up too the extremely high heat (long term)? If you can make them do such, they would be expensive.
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Old 03-16-2011, 12:40 PM   #13
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Making the Chevy volt is expensive.
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Old 03-16-2011, 01:34 PM   #14
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If the technology isn't there, then how come there are many small Euro cars that are rated at over 80mpg on diesel, yet the best we get here is the Prius at a measley 50mpg using hybrid technology? Go look up Fiat, Renault, Pugeot and Volkswagon and their model lines in other countries. Hell, the VW Polo with one of the diesel engines is rated at 90mpg. Even the sedans like the Passat and the Peugeot 407 get over 40mpg on gasoline. Yes they are small cars, yes they are diesel....but still, they're available cars that get much better MPGs than anything in the US and without having to use heavy batteries. I don't think that 100mpg from a 4.xL V8 with 300+ hp would be possible, but small 4-cylinder engines in decently lightweight cars (2,000-2,800lbs) with good aerodynamics? Much easier to accomplish. And you really think that the oil companies give a **** about how much prices strain the economy or the enviornment? I guess they're best interest was adding ethanol to gasoline that decreases efficiency and makes us come back to the pump sooner....because that reduces cost and puts less pollution i nthe enviornment. How come the average citizen is displeased when fuel costs go up yet the big shots around Washington simply write it off and really don't have much to say other than "expect higher prices"? I know it's not the government's job to regulate the oil companes and tell them everything they can and can't do, but it is their job to keep the country from going belly-up from a tanked economy....and doubling the gost of gas is a great way to accomplish that....along with a no-drill policy that would help reduce the cost of fuel.

You do know that betters can be recycled? Ever think about the tens of thousands of electric forklifts/industrial equipment that are bettery powered, what happens to all of them?

Last edited by Doppelgänger; 03-16-2011 at 02:18 PM.
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Old 03-16-2011, 01:45 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doppelgänger View Post
If the technology isn't there, then how come there are many small Euro cars that are rated at over 80mpg on diesel, yet the best we get here is the Prius at a measley 50mpg using hybrid technology? Go look up Fiat, Renault, Pugeot and Volkswagon and their model lines in other countries. Hell, the VW Polo with one of the diesel engines is rated at 90mpg. Even the sedans like the Passat and the Peugeot 407 get over 40mpg on gasoline. Yes they are small cars, yes they are diesel....but still, they're available cars that get much better MPGs than anything in the US and without having to use heavy batteries. I don't think that 100mpg from a 4.xL V8 with 300+ hp would be possible, but small 4-cylinder engines in decently lightweight cars (2,000-2,800lbs) with good aerodynamics? Much easier to accomplish.
I have to agree with this.
Closest thing we have to those cars is the Smart, which sucks *** at only 45mpg or something like that.
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Old 03-16-2011, 02:11 PM   #16
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The fact that our government restricts certain diesels and smaller cars due to inconsistent and illogical emissions and crash standards is one thing -- the claim that there's a vast conspiracy that is suppressing already-developed technologies from being sold is another.
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Old 03-16-2011, 02:26 PM   #17
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I wouldn't say I think it's some full-on conspiracy, but I do think it's very likely that it's out there and a possibility.
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Old 03-16-2011, 02:38 PM   #18
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I just don't see it. If this guy's technology really worked (or if, say, electric cars were really viable alternatives), what's stopping him? Seriously, he's got a technology that produces a real-world, demonstrable 110 MPG passenger car, and he's abandoning it because he can't raise capital? There aren't hundreds if not thousands of investors who would be interested in being the industry pioneer on this?

EDIT:

Google finds that the proprietor has failed to file any relevant patent applications and will not allow 3rd party testing of his Mustang test mule.

http://theautoprophet.blogspot.com/2...vaporware.html
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Old 03-16-2011, 03:06 PM   #19
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Quote:
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I wouldn't say I think it's some full-on conspiracy, but I do think it's very likely that it's out there and a possibility.
Im saying it is a conspiracy. You watch, now that hes got attention, the attention and he himself will vanish. Gov. and too many other folks make too much money off of things being the way they are to let something like this see mass production. Even is this guy is full of ****, it still doesnt change the fact that if tech like this is real, it will never see the light of day.
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Old 03-16-2011, 03:36 PM   #20
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Well, trickyrix was accusing me of saying ist's some crazy off-the-wall conspiracy that the government would surpress technology that could cut deeply into the profits of the oil industry and that I'm mildy looney for thinking so. I'm saying I believe it's a possibility that such happenings exist because it's proven how greedy they are and that it's known that either entity doesn't always keep our best interest in mind.
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