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Old 02-16-2017, 01:58 PM   #1
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Default Another 15x9 225vs205 Tire Thread

Cliff note at bottom, sorry about the ramble, lots of questions.

Hello all, I know 15x9 vs 15x8 and 205vs225 has been covered 100's of times, but reading through it all and some of the info is dated, leads to more confusion for me. My car is a 2003 NB, I just put DIY billies on it with 450/300 springs. The car is a daily driver that will see a few autocrosses and a few HPDE days a year. I only put a few thousand miles on it a year (short commute of 2 miles). I have a brand new set of 15x9 Advanti S1 rims I got for a steal waiting for this car, also a set of 15x7.5 TRMotorsport rims with BF Sport Comp 2's on it currently (I like these, but the Advanti wheels look way better and the Comp2's dont have as much grip as I imagined, perhaps i suck at driving). My budget is tight, which leads me to:

The question is tire selection. I would like to put the 15x9's on the car for ascetics, I can add more tire as my track driving improves, more grip for when I do get out on the track, but due to how limited my track driving is, I would like to stay on the more budget end of the tire spectrum. The new RS4's seem to be about $570 shipped for a set. Some people have been able to run 205's on the 15x9, but it depends on the tire selection. If I were able to drop to a 205, then the cheaper Federal 595-RR (initial reviews seem to be good on these) at $420 or the new Extremecontact Sports ($440 or so) save me $130-$150 a set that I can actually put towards track time.

The Federal section width is 8.3", and the tread width is 7.2". I assume the Conti's are comparable. How small is TOO small for a 15x9 for daily use? Also I read I think in the DIY billie thread that 15x9 wheels cannot run a 15/50 profile tire and fit when lowered? I have seen some claim they work, some say the ride is worse, or better, or the bead pops off, or you look like a stance boi pansy, etc.

Cliff notes: Guy has very tight budget, looking for a street tire he can do a few track days on, has 15x9's he desperately wants to use, and wonders which 205's would fit well and be on the cheap end of the budget. Leaning towards Federal 595RR or Conti Extremecontact Sport as both new tires have decent reviews. However both are 50 profile tires, does that work?
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Old 02-16-2017, 02:15 PM   #2
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It's actually preferable for you to tag along an existing thread discussing this very topic rather than junk up the forum with yet another thread. Idea being it's easier to find all the data in one place.

I wouldn't be comfortable with 205's on 9's, just too stretched. It's been done but there is no good reason. The are no good for daily driver tires in 225 yet..... I got 3k miles and 9 auto x events out of my rivals I'd expect the same from the RE71's. Your best bet would be either the 245 VR1, or wait and see how the 245 RS4 turns out.
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Old 02-16-2017, 02:34 PM   #3
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Good point on tagging an existing thread, I guess the last real discussion I saw on this was Coriftos thread about switching to a 15x8 rim.

This is where i get lost as to what direction to go. You say there is no good reason to put a 205 on the 15x9, but in Coriftos thread from 2015, https://www.miataturbo.net/wheels-ti...ch-15x8-83105/ the discussion was that a 205 can be used if no 225 is around. He just ended up buying 15x8's so the discussion didn't get much further along. Im concerned getting rid of the 15x9s and dropping to 8's for the tire selection might bite me in the *** down the line as i get more and more track time under my belt, just right now dropping $600 on a set of rivals that I'm mainly going to daily seems like wasting rubber.
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Old 02-16-2017, 02:42 PM   #4
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If you're going to get serious about auto x then switching rim size is a waste of time......So is running one of the Uber soft Hoosiers in disguise tires such as Rivals or RE71 as a daily driver. They aren't even a good choice for a HPDE tire as they only last 4 to 6 hrs of track time.

Which is why I pointed you towards the VR1 or RS4, yeah I know it was discussed that you could run 205's on 9's but it's going to look goofy and ride like ***.

The smartest thing to do is put the cheapest hardest tires you can find on your 7.5" wheels then you can get some gumballs for your 9's and swap em for when you race. If 200$ make that big of a difference to your budget that's pretty much your only option. Think about the long game, you're looking at 5 to 8k miles for rivals/re71, 10 to 15k for second tier tires like the VR1, you can probably easily get 30k miles out of a 400 tread wear tire so you're going to go through 4 sets of rivals or 2 sets of VR1 for every set of normal street tires.
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Old 02-18-2017, 06:03 AM   #5
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I think so long as you stay with any of the 200TW ST tires that tend to run wide, you're probably going to be fine. Them riding horrible when stretched more is a bit overblown. I doubt there's much of a difference there. There's also been a little bit of debate on a 205 being faster on an 9 over an 8. I know that holds true for Hoosiers but I've never seen a test of that theory on street tires.

I ran 15x9's and 205 VR1's on my DD beater from May til it got cold in November and they seemed to work fine. Didn't really ride that bad either (and that's with Koni Race/Sports, 700/450, RB tubular front/14 mm rear bar, poly bushings, etc). That being said, I'll probably replace them next year with 225 VR1's or RS4's.




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Old 03-11-2017, 02:34 PM   #6
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Quote:
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I think so long as you stay with any of the 200TW ST tires that tend to run wide, you're probably going to be fine. Them riding horrible when stretched more is a bit overblown. I doubt there's much of a difference there. There's also been a little bit of debate on a 205 being faster on an 9 over an 8. I know that holds true for Hoosiers but I've never seen a test of that theory on street tires.

I ran 15x9's and 205 VR1's on my DD beater from May til it got cold in November and they seemed to work fine. Didn't really ride that bad either (and that's with Koni Race/Sports, 700/450, RB tubular front/14 mm rear bar, poly bushings, etc). That being said, I'll probably replace them next year with 225 VR1's or RS4's.




Those actually don't look too bad.

I just bought a set of 9's and when it comes time to replace tires on them I might get 205's instead of the 225's that are on there now for cost reasons. It's like a 200 dollar difference and I only drive the car sparingly in the spring/summer/fall. Depending on how much use I get out of the 225's I might get another set, but I doubt they'd last over 10k street miles.

Is there a list of the tires that tend to run wide for 205's? Yours actually look more than acceptable, but I've seen some pictures of setups I wouldn't put on my car.
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Old 03-15-2017, 10:23 AM   #7
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Is there a list of the tires that tend to run wide for 205's?
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/TireS...earDiameter=17

Basically any sticky (200TW or lower) street or race tire. They all seem to advertise a 8.4" or so section width though certain ones are probably wider than others there. I think unmounted, the BFG's might run the widest of the street tires.
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Old 03-15-2017, 10:40 AM   #8
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I have been trying to find more and more pics of 205s on 9" set ups. Not too many Ive seen yet. I picked up a set of Federal 595RS-RR tires a week or so ago. They were running a promo for $60 off, so the full set shipped was about $360. I have wanted to try these tires as a budget sticky set up for awhile, and the price point made my decision for me. If they are stretched or look goofy, I have 7.5" rims they can go on so I'm not overly worried. Once I get them mounted I will post pictures. The Federals run 8.3" section width compared to some of these others 8.4". However, every review I have read on other car forums say they always seem to be bigger.
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Old 03-15-2017, 11:20 AM   #9
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With the spring rates you are using, an ultra 200tw tire will be grippy enough to probably put you hard on the bumpstops in a corner, depending upon your ride height.

Aside from that, you are not driving competitively in TT or w2w and you say you are on a tight budget. I'm going to suggest you pick one set of wheels to be your DD wheels and mount a good, long wearing tire on them. For the track days and autocrosses I'd pick up a set of SM takeoff Hoosier SM7's. They can be free or cost a few bucks depending upon quality. They will be 205's and will fit both the 7.5 and 9in wheels. You may find them to be faster on the narrower wheels due to less mass and possibly aero drag, but it won't matter either way because HPDE. I have run them on 6.5 wheels on a budget and they really fill out 8in 6uls. I wouldn't hesitate to put them on a 9in wheel after seeing them on an 8.
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Old 03-15-2017, 11:27 AM   #10
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The SM7 sounds like a smart tire choice as i gain experience lapping. I only have a few sessions under my belt and have spent the last year and a half buying safety supplies for this year. The car is 90% daily driven, hence the softer spring rates. I will keep my eyes out for take off tires.

I was under the impression people were running 450/300 or 450/350 for dual duty track/daily set ups with sticky rubber? I have not driven on the new shocks/springs, I assume I might need a heavy front sway bar to help compensate.
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Old 03-15-2017, 11:40 AM   #11
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450-f is a pretty cushy street spring rate... I ran 600/450 on Bilsteins on 205 rival-s and I was perhaps a bit under sprung, but we have really bumpy lots, so it worked. The ride was actually pretty reasonable, though I did need ISC top hats to retain enough bump travel.
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Old 03-15-2017, 11:45 AM   #12
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205s on 9s do not ride like ****.
50/15s fit a lowered car, especially an NB.

I personally hate the stretched look, but theres no reason you cant run 205 on a 9. My NA is about 4.5" pinch height, only had to roll the front and do a slight pull on the rear. 15x9 dial ins, they don't rub anything, even at full lock.

205/50 rivals on 9s




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Old 03-15-2017, 01:46 PM   #13
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450 is a good 90% street rate that is still track capable, but you will need the strong front bar eventually. Just stay off the curbs at track out (outside wheels) and the car should be settled.

The car may oversteer some until you get the front bar.
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Old 03-15-2017, 02:47 PM   #14
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Sixshooter, thanks for the input. Ill keep an eye out for a front bar.

The rivals look good on a 9, I think I should be ok with my current choice, and then upgrade to the SM7's as I find them. We just got 18-24" of fresh snow, so I think testing out the new tires is a ways away yet.....
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Old 03-15-2017, 03:27 PM   #15
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The SM7's will work fine on your smaller wheels. I think the SM guys run 15x7's.
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Old 03-15-2017, 06:19 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hi_im_sean View Post
205s on 9s do not ride like ****.
50/15s fit a lowered car, especially an NB.

I personally hate the stretched look, but theres no reason you cant run 205 on a 9. My NA is about 4.5" pinch height, only had to roll the front and do a slight pull on the rear. 15x9 dial ins, they don't rub anything, even at full lock.

205/50 rivals on 9s
Thanks for the pictures!

PS: You put the konig cap on upside down!



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Old 03-15-2017, 07:33 PM   #17
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450 is a good 90% street rate that is still track capable, but you will need the strong front bar eventually. Just stay off the curbs at track out (outside wheels) and the car should be settled.
.
Good to know. I just remembered swapping out my 400 f springs after a few weeks because my tires were kicking the springs *** and the bumpstops were doing all of the work. Given this was at autocross, so, "different springs for different things"

/end thread drift
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Old 03-16-2017, 08:13 AM   #18
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Yeah, the 450 with the big front sway bar will still be a bit light for really sticky tires on the track but will be very compliant as a 90% DD. And he's on a budget and got them already. Lots of people have done track days on less and still had a great time. He'll be fine. And he's gonna catch a lot of slower cars and worse drivers with it on a limited budget. That's great!
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Old 03-17-2017, 01:12 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sixshooter View Post
Yeah, the 450 with the big front sway bar will still be a bit light for really sticky tires on the track but will be very compliant as a 90% DD. And he's on a budget and got them already. Lots of people have done track days on less and still had a great time. He'll be fine. And he's gonna catch a lot of slower cars and worse drivers with it on a limited budget. That's great!
This makes me excited!

(I just got a sway bar)
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Old 03-17-2017, 02:55 PM   #20
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I just railed on 205 RC-1's on 15x9's all weekend, no issues, very responsive, but pictures make it look fairly sketchy with that amount of stretch fully loaded. Absolutely no reason to run this, I just already had 205 RC-1's and didn't want to buy another set of 8's since I plan on running 225's or 205 purple crack in the near future.

https://mohflo.photoreflect.com/stor...1&po=10&pc=127
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