Kumho V720
 

I was just browsing tires on tirerack and stumbled onto this new Kumho V720. It looks like it's the replacing the XS, which has done well to meet my needs. Has anyone run these tires yet? Impressions? Particularly compared to the XS? I was planning to move to a 225 RS3, but a sub $100 205 might be tough to pass up.

The autox community seems to like them a lot better than the XS. For the price, give them a shot. General consensus is that they MIGHT not be as good as the RE71R, but they're certainly cheaper.

I'd run them if they came in 225/45.

it would be nice to see some reviews, the XS were supposed to be horrible in the wet.

I just received a set in 215/45-17 for my wife's NC. We're taking it to FM's summer camp and doing track time, and I didn't think the current tires would make the trip there and back with the track abuse. As noted, these were definitely cheap enough.

I expect we'll get some rain on the trip, so I should be able to give an all 'round review on them... in early August. Won't even be mounting them 'till mid-July.

<p></p><p>FTFY</p>

Looking forward to the review Roda.

I didn't mind the XS in the wet, but am very interested to see how the V720 performs. I doubt it'll be RE71R/Rival-S level, but we'll see. I think the V720 is positioned more as a track day / chumpcar tire than autocross, assuming it's "harder" and more heat tolerant like the XS.

So... partial review...

Caviat: this is the first set of 200TW tires our NC has had, so I can't directly compare it to anything but what I've run on my NA, and this is all going to be subjective as I won't have lap times to compare to.

Got these mounted up last week, and finally got a chance to do a good run on the local mountain road. Lots of grip... outright grip feels better than the Dunlop ZIIs currently on my NA. The feel reminds me a lot of the NT-01s I had on the NA previously. At the edge of adhesion, they give plenty of warning, and come back predictably when you back off. Our NC is set up to tend a little more towards understeer than I really like (because it's my wife's DD), but I can get the car to rotate off throttle, and it's easily managed with the V720s.

Our local mountain 'circuit' is ~15 miles one way, mostly medium speed corners (40-60) with a few more open sections. Pushing hard, I can easily overheat an S.Drive (previous tires on the NC) in one, one-way run. ZIIs will start to fade a bit after a hard round trip in the NA. The V720s didn't bat an eye after a hard round trip with ambients in the 70s.

On the street, they hum a bit at medium speeds (30-50), but are pretty quiet on the highway.

We'll be on the track at FM Summer Camp on Thursday, so I'll post my impressions of actual track use later this week.

Check out the tire rack test, they did pretty well. Keep in mind this is on a heavier car with limited camber http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...y.jsp?ttid=202 The XS did stand up really well to heat. The V720 might be a good tire for crapbox endurance racing if it has the same heat tolerance, cheapest of the bunch too.

Having read that, id really like to try these for my next set at $99 each for 205s. The big downer is there is no 225 for a 15.

Waiting on longetivity reports. Don't the zii's last forever?

Those are good results.

Just got back from the track here in Grand Junction, and my first track time on these tires (and in the NC). Track is a .9 mile go-cart track, that's pretty tight. All 2nd gear in our NC, except the front and back straights, where I was briefly into 3rd. Fast guys in V8 and turbo cars were running 1:05-07s on R comps. My best time was 1:09.0, and consistent 1:09.5s. Our NC has Konis, Progress springs & sway bars, and a Goodwin muffler... otherwise stock.

My impression of the V720s, is pretty much just a repeat of what I previously posted. Predictable, with lots of margin at the edge of grip. They seemed to suffer a bit in outright grip later in the day when it got hot (over 90*). Our NC doesn't have the beans to get them spinning on corner exits, but I could get it to rotate on trailing throttle. Overall, they work, and they're cheap. Probably not going to set FTD, but neither am I.

I'd probably buy a set for my NA, but my next set will be 225s, which, as noted, aren't available in the V720.

If they last anything like the XS, ill be exited. Our XSs lasted 2.5 seasons with 2 drivers. Our rivals have 4 track days on them(about 2/3 of a season for us), and ill be lucky to get another 2 or 3, so maybe one whole season. They are stickier though.

Doubt you'll get close to the longevity of older tires with the new generation of rubber.

Check out the tread marbles forming during testing @ 2:40 http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...y.jsp?ttid=202

Also check out my Miata :riaa: and team's e30 @ 5:50

FWIW, I was doing 1:07s on 225 Rivals. FM had some cars on RA1s, but I didn't see any faster tires than that there yesterday. One of the 1:05 guys was on Azenis, but of course he was driving an Exocet... :)

--Ian

I saw a couple of cars on NT01s... not sure whose, though.

Keith also posted this morning on M.net that he went 1:06 something in their ND with RE71s and a front alignment.

I need to have one of the FM guys ride with me next year... I'm pretty sure there's a better line than I'm using through at least a couple corners. LOL.

How were your Rivals holding up in the afternoon?

Not sure who you are asking, but ill respond with my experience.

They dont. Im in phoenix though so our mid morning is probably your afternoon. First session of the day is always between 8 and 8:30 and is always the fatsest. Im anywhere from a 0.4 to 1.2 ish seconds slower as the day goes on and the track heats up. The one thing I really liked about the XSs is their ability to withstand the heat. I can only remember them getting greasy once after 20 minutes straight of hotlapping, I was in a groove. Lap 14 or so, I had to back off and let them cool. Having said that a greasy rival is still a little faster tan the XS, by maybe a 0.5.

Sorry, I was asking codrus, since he was here in GJ yesterday. Curious how the Rivals did on the same day. The V720s started to lose grip in the afternoon. Keith posted in the other thread that temps got to 95* yesterday. Not Phoenix hot, but still hot. And we're only doing 5 lap sessions, but it's more like a long, fast autoX.

Since I'm usually tracking in Phoenix, your experience is also valuable.

The Rivals fell off a lot. I only did 4 sessions -- was having cam sensor heat soak issues causing sync losses in the first 3, although I managed my best (1:07.3) in session 2. I got another sensor at lunch time and put it in, the 4th session felt really good, but was half a second slower according to the clock. Tires were overheating and sliding. After that I called it quits because *I* was overheating, and I needed to go pick up my truck.

My Rivals are pretty old, I mostly use them as street tires (RRs for big tracks).

And yeah, Keith probably has 10,000 runs on that track. :)

--Ian

So I was cruising tire rack to see when the RS-3 V2 would come back into stock and saw this. Unbelievable pricing and I had NO clue the V720 was coming in a 225/45/15.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1450116708

Nice find! Great to see another 225/45/15 on the market. I may resist rotating my 205s and go to a 225 when I kill off the rears.

Damn. Thats cheap. Did you pick any up?

Wow... great price! I didn't know they were coming in that size either...

FWIW, to add to my earlier info, after we got home from FM the V720s were getting pretty noisy. At that point they had ~1400 miles, mostly the drive to/from Colorado. They did fine in some moderate rain on the way home. I decided to go to dedicated track wheels for the NC for next year (17x9 w/ 235), so I ended up selling the V720s.

I may just put V720s in 225/45-15s on my NA as a replacement street tire when my ZIIs wear out (if ever). I would consider them for AutoX, but not track use.

Interestingly, two of the reviews on TR mention delamination with hard track use...

Not yet. I'm done for the season but I'll need two sets of tires for Time Attack next year...one set of Rival-S and something that I can use for practice. Definitely going to keep an eye on these.

I just saw those reviews as well but one of the reviews that mentions that was from endurance racing.

Kewl. Just ordered a set to replace the mostly worn Rival-S on Taxi.

*patiently waits for data comparisons*

Got a set of 245's coming for the GWR ND as well.

No plans to do controlled testing as Tire Rack has already done that. V720 has more lateral grip than the Rival-S and steers better according to their test. Google. RE71R is better yet but not available in 225/45/15.

It's strange that tire performance hierarchy goes something like

A7, R1-S
R7, R1
RR, RE71R, Rival-S, V720
RA1, NT01, R888, RC-1
Everything else

The Tire Rack test tested these on a BMW 328i 18x8 with 245s. The Rival S doesn't really do well on heavier cars judging from the GRM test. And looking at stock SCCA stock classes they really didn't like limited camber and narrow wheels.

On a Miata with 15x9s and a good alignment I bet the V720 will fall somewhere between the Rival-S and RS3 v2, which is pretty damn good at that price point.

Reading the reviews from some of my fellow endurance racers, there have been mentions of chunking and delamination of the tread. One guy even ran them shaved to 5/32" and experienced the same. I'd be curious to see reviews from others, especially the 225/45

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....del=Ecsta+V720

I vote for you to be te Guinea pig!

Please post results here.

K thx

Thanks for the word, hadn't seen the TR results and tend to not trust too many sites these days. They're cheap enough that I'll probably buy a set and see how they do at my local tracks.

V720s in the 245/40/17 variety. Just pics for now, next local event where we can do some evaluation of the tires is in January.

http://www.mazdatalkforum.com/downlo...hp?id=3132&t=1

Any word on how these tires hold up doing track days?

It would be amazing if the W720s are as fast as a Rival-S or RE71R. Question is, will they last as long or maybe even longer? They're likely going to be my street tire/mountain tire/HPDE tire to replace my RS3s on my TT car.

Ordered a pair to replace a pair of my 3 year old RS3s since it looks like they'll never get any back in stock. Will leave opinion here after I get them mounted on and broken in.

Ran across this article when I was doing research on the V720:

Kumho Is Adding Sizes to the Ecsta V720 and Capacity for LT Tires - Retail - Modern Tire Dealer

Looks like we should expect to see full rollout in March 2016 at places like Discount Tire.

Any updates?

Just a a quick note, the V720's run narrow. I didn't measure the tread but the 225/45 were visibly a bit stretched on 15x9 6UL where the Rival and R1R sit almost square. Haven't run them in full dry conditions yet so no opinion on how they work there. Good in the wet, just not RE71R good there.

I've got about 1000 street miles on mine. Overall impression.

--Way stickier than my old dried out gen1 RS3s (duh).
--Noticeably louder than my old RS3s. They were quiet, but are getting louder.
--Side wall looks taller too. This might have to do w/what Emilio was talking about. RS3s had a more square transition from sidewall to tread. These have a more rounded shoulder. Make the overall sidewall look taller?

I have 8" wide wheels. Do the 225s look narrow enough to be better than the 205s on my 8" wide wheels for track/autocross use?

Out of curiosity I measured the two contact patch widths of the 225/45 on our 15x9 6UL. Not the casing or molded tread width, but the actual area that wears.

~214mm Rival-S
~200mm V720

V720 is rounder so molded tread width difference is closer to 8mm, as opposed to the nearly 14mm difference in contact patch. We raced this tire intermediate rain conditions plus 200miles of highway driving at 26psi. I suspect the V720 might roll over more and use more contact patch in full dry conditions. Just the same, it is most definitely narrower than the Rival-S.

8"= 203mm so the 225 may do ok and be faster than the 205 on a 8" wheel. I am not sure.

I'd say 225 is almost always faster than a 205- all else being equal (tire/wheel width/car)etc.

If you are not class limited to a tire width- run the widest tire you can on the widest rim that you have.

My experience goes like this:

205 on 8" rim- feels sharp, slowest
225 on 8" rim- feels slightly less sharp, lap times are faster than 205 on 8" rim
225 on 9" rim- feels sharp, fastest



If it was me- I'd get the 225 and run it on whatever rims you have.

Yeah, especially for autocross use. Hell, people use to run 275 Hoosiers on 6 inch wheels in Stock classes. Was it ideal? Hell no, but it was faster than anything else you could put on there.

--Ian

Emilio, thanks for pointing this out. For a reference, I measured the contact patch of a 205/50/15 Nitto NT05 on a 7.5 inch wheel. I sprayed the tire with water and moved the car and then measured it on asphalt with a tape measure. The NT05 contact patch was 6.5 inches, on the drivers rear, with 200# of driver. So there seems to be quite a difference between various manufacturers sizing. Star Specs and Yoke AD08 also seem to be on the wider side.

You did it different then.

"I measured the two contact patch widths of the 225/45 on our 15x9 6UL. Not the casing or molded tread width, but the actual area that wears. " -Emilio

We should set a standard and start creating a database before we get too much misinformation

Two of the same size/model tires will have different worn widths depending on type of use.

That's a valid point, in my case, the tires have only been street driven. Wouldn't front tires tend to have more edge wear due to turning?

Then your worn tread width of same tire model/size would be less than driver B's worn tread width who does competitive driving... or has less tire pressure... or more weight... or significant downforce... etc.

I would hypothesize that the rears could see just as much edge wear as the fronts on some cars. Depending on driving style, car set up, weight balance...

Are these tires really fast enough to warrant being in the +6 category by NASA?

Seems like they're just a budget 200TW tire, not a "cheater" tire with a 200TW rating, or autocross compound like the Rival S.

I'd love to save ~$80/set over star specs, but I need a +2 tire...

I was about to order a set of these for this spring... So no one here @ MT has seen any delamination issues (aside from those 2 tire rack reviews) from doing trackdays and HPDEs on the 225/45/15 V720s? Looking to those in warmer weather that might already be out abusing them...

I guess if they're good enough for Emilio they're good enough for me, lol.

I just talked to someone at Discount Tire Direct today, and they told me that the V720 was a Tire Rack exclusive.

My local shop has had no problems sourcing them...I'm calling BS.

Your local shop has a tire rack wholesale account?

When I bought my Dunlop ZIIs they were a TR exclusive. My local Discount Tire ordered them from TR, and gave me TR's price... :D

Hmmm...
Kumho Ecsta V720 Review - RX8Club.com

That's not looking kosher. If all goes according to plan this week, we should finally have a chance to try out the 720's this weekend on the ND.

I ran a pair of these this past weekend at AutoClub Speedway on the back of my car with a set of older RS3s in the front.

I'm not super fast (2:05.xxx/street car) and I didn't try to beat he shit out of them; they held up great. Sticky and felt like they let go very progressively. Actually a little more progressive than I remember the RS3s when they were new.

No delaminating at all and ran them at 34 psi hot.

Thanks, appreciate the reviews.

On the rx8club thread, it sounded like that fellow got a bad set of 720's, some kind of manufacturing defect I guess, since Tirerack apparently took care of him and Kumho actually wanted them back to look at. Hopefully that means that whatever that issue was is now fixed...