Recommend me some noob track day tires
 

Hey All,

I got myself some 6UL 15x9 for mounting track tires. My original plan was to get some 225/45 NT01 tires for it. I then found federal 205/50, it is real cheap and seems to be an ok track tire.

I am total track day noob. Can 205/50R15 tires be mounted on 15x9 6ULs? Will it work ok as track tire setup?

Feel free to give me some advice.

Thanks,
-Raj

Some 205s will fit on 15x9s, not sure about the ones you mentioned though. If you're new to track days, you can't go wrong with Hankook R-S3s. They will last a while, you can drive them on the street, they communicate well, and they're pretty fast.

Edit: And cheaper than NT-01s.

Thanks for the info Nate. I will check them out.

-Raj

Yeah, NT01s are pretty intense for a first time driver. RS-3 or Dunlop Star Specs are probably a better choice for a beginner.

You should probably run on shit-rubber the first few days, but running on NT-01 won't be dangerous or anything. It's more about not wasting tire-money while you are a newb than anything else.

Would RS3 be considered as shit track tire? Emilio, in an other thread indicated that they were going to run Federal RS 595-R on their 25hrs of Thunderhill race. I wonder if they are going to run it on 15x9 or 15x8. Maybe Savington or Emilio might pop in and comment.

Thanks for the info.
-Raj

I've kept my tires at around $60 a piece and used falken 512s, toyo proxxes 4s, and now nitto neo gens. Havent had any complaints with any of them. Great in the Oregon rain, last forever, heat up on the track. Yes you sacrifice grip, but I'm not racing competitively.

Do you know how to trail-brake with extreme prejudice? Can you slide the car from apex to paint? Can you back-in the car on tight corners?

If not, run a shitty tire because this is stuff you need to learn. Running a couple sets of 200 treadwear to learn to slide the car will probably "get you there" faster than running stickier stuff.

Nope, I can't trail brake or any of the things you mentioned.

I have falken 512s on 7 inch wheels now. I think I will just run them for a few track days and see how I fare.

Thanks,
-Raj

Hustler's right. You want to learn on less grippy tires because they will let you find the limits of the car's handling and let you learn how to handle it at the limit at much safer speeds. Then increase grip later, after you are comfortable practicing catching the car over and over when it tries to spin out. The sticky tires will cover your initial mistakes and cause you to get over your head quickly with no skills to save the car or yourself.

My $.04
Shit rubber will let you lock-up without cording a tire and will teach you car control when you start driving the car sideways down the track. When you can back-in the car in a tightening, off-camber, trail-braking turn, you are ready for the fancy rubber. When the car and driver become "horse and rider", you'll know what I mean. Car placement and dynamics will become a motor function to a degree, not an effort to use the input devices as a correction. It's not about the tire covering mistakes, it's about learning car control on a tire with less grip.

I think the best practice or newb tire out there is a cylded-out r-compound. They still break-away clean and predictably, they just make very little grip. You should spend all your money on Xidas, bushings, swaybars, and brakes. Get the car set-up perfectly and run shitty tires. If someone tells you that you "don't have enough experience to use all of that good shock valving and expensive set-up stuff," disregard everything they've told you...which means 90% of people at the track no nothing they speak of.

BTW, you need a lap timer with over/under prediction. I wasted a lot of tires/brakes/fuel before I bought a lap timer.

Thanks, good stuff Hustler.

I just ordered my Xidas last night :D

Already have some all-seasons ready to go to learn on ($60 Kuhmos FTW), too bad everything up here is done until 2013.

Road Atlanta December 1-2 with NASA Southeast Region. The weather is much better in ATL than Indy in December.

Just a quick 10 hour drive down I-65! That's a long way to go without a trailer. If anyone else from Indy is trailering their car down and have space for another, I am in! Otherwise I would be way too nervous whoopin on my ride home.

Any open days left at Autobahn CC? That's only 2 and a half hours or so for me.

RS3 is definitely not a crappy track tire. I have asked in that thread specifically why they are going with the Federals. There's been no response yet but I will hazard a few guesses based on my google research of the Federal 595 rsr.

a) the RS3's like heat. Thunderhill can have sub-freezing temperatures. If there's any precipitation at all then the RS3's probably could not be kept up to temp and would not grip well.

b) what information I can find on the 595 RSR's indicates they warm up faster and do well in cold temperatures, and have a lower optimal temp

c) the RS3's only come in 225/45 for 15". The Federals are 205/50. I don't know if there's a point penalty between the two sizes for the classes 949 is running in but the narrower 205 should be better if there's any rain. Someone correct me if I'm wrong on this, that's my understanding. The wider tire would hydroplane easier.

Hustler, Im currently running potenza RE-11, 180 treadwear. They are pretty much done, and will be done after my next weekend. If I am still in the learning stages, would I be best to up the tire wear a tad, or would sticking with another set of RE-11's be a decent choice?

I think the following bit is the most important part of figuring out the answer to the question.

Run em till they cord then buy another set, or see what 949 says about the Federal after the race because 949 isn't going to say shit about it now and I don't blame them. I hope that doesn't sound like he/they are holding out. They've given a mega-ton of information to us, you have to work for some of it because information is more valuable than parts.

If I were you, I'd buy SM take-offs until you have a year or so under your belt. After the amount I grew over the last few months, I'm getting another set of wheels for "junk rubber" to practice on. Eventually I'll warm-up on RS-3, then run SM6 or NT-01 "for the money" depending upon class. NT-01 are super-fast for about 15 sessions, then it's over. I can go ~30-40 sessions on them, but they aren't fast after the first 15 sessions.

Touche six.

Yeah, I had a feeling that they would be tight lipped about the federals until at least after the 25, I dont blame them either. Ill do that, wait until they chord, and see what is avaliable to me at the time.

Here is my plan, feel free to critique it. I have some money invested in it and it is gonna take a while for me to buy new shiny parts (Xidas, bigger brakes etc..).

I have a set of race konis (700/400 springs. Kraig Klippel's old setup). I also have the RB front hollow sway bar and stock rear sway bars. Mounting these should be faster (One weekend hopefully. I can't work during the week days/nights). I will do the polyurethane bushings and grease fittings later. I am going to do a few trackdays using my street tires (Falken 512) and then switch over to used Toyo RA1 (Came with the 6UL) till I wear them out. I am going to try and borrow a traqmate setup for the initial runs.

I will then re-evaluate my setup and skills and ask for more advice.

-Raj

Redrider with the inch and an eighth front bar you have to buy the heavy duty sway bar mounts.stock mounts well rip off and the patch kit using the long bolts wont line up with the greasable bushing slots and you might breack off bolts. Lots of custom grinding and cursing involved trust me buy the Mazda competition sway bar mounts from the beginning. Making the rb patch sway bar stiffening kit work isn't worth it even if you have the skills and patience. Been there done that.
Federals hate heat to the extreme!!! Really cheap buy in too.

I thought I read that this wasn't the case if you were running stiffer springs. Specifically SM... Has anyone running 700 lb/in front springs had issues with the stock mounts? Tried searching but probably didn't use the right wording.

After some searching I've decided to just use the extra mounting hardware from RB. I also ground the bushing down to make sure it didn't bind.

The first priorities are seat time and good instruction. Try to ride with someone that has experience in a low hp rwd vehicle. Cheap tires and pads are fine until you notice chuncking/mohawk tread or your pads are only lasting 2-4 laps. Focus on track time first. I would caution you against old race rubber as I've noticed that the break away characteristics are non-linear and they also take forever to heat up. I would guess good street rubber under 350 ish teadwear should be good. Dont over think it, your not racing Rolex 24.

Ericwh, even with the Racing Beat patch kit to stiffen the sway bar mounts the mounts flex hard under track conditions. This has been proven with gopro cameras mounted under the car aimed at the suspension. Buy the Mazda speed sway bar mounts and go faster without ripping the sway bar mounts off the car in the middle of a race (fail) at speed. This well eventually happen to you as it has happened to others.

So if a noob were looking for predictable, safe handling characteristics and the cheapest tire per track day, what would they look for?

An 'extreme performance tire' to handle the heat? Some hard minivan tires (so you go off at lower speeds while trying to trail brake like a noob)?

How much power?

110bhp.

First time out? Then regular old street tires.
Learn the balance of the car and the proper line around the track at a manageable speed.

There will be PLENTY of time for stickier tires once you learn to catch oversteer and manage understeer at safer speeds.


The first time out it isn't about speed. It's about learning.

Direzzas. That's the tire of choice for the competitive Chump teams and it is a very good tire for what it is. It won't overheat too bad and its predictable when cold, hot, and overheated.

Just take anything that will run.

I got my cheap ass Kuhmo all seasons ready to go. If those don't last through the couple of track days I plan on doing, then I will get some Star Specs. Or maybe some more $60 all seasons depending on how cheap I am.

There you go.

Go have fun. Your car sounds like it is really nice.
Always: use the portable potty before buckling up. You cant race if your uncomfortable . Make sure to check everything on the car before you ever get to the track. Don't wait tell the last minute or do all kinds of crazy night before the race mods. That way nothing gets overlooked and you're not stressed at the track and you can trust your car prep.

224/45/15 Hankook RS'3 best noob track tire ever.

Just get out and drive with anything that has tread. Rt615s,nt01s,or starspecs are all relatively cheap and will you get a good amount of time out on track.

I ran my toyo T1Rs for the first event, which are my street tires. After wearing them down pretty good I invested in some specific track only wheels and tires (Nitto01s on TR motorsports)

Wow. What is, Go big or go home! your motto? Haha. Good for you. We need more enthusiasts like you. Have fun and hope to see you out there sometime! Aaron

As a NASA TX instructor and new to this forum (need to get my post count up) here is what we tell our students how to prepare for a track day and this applies to your next 3 to 5 track days.

1) Look at your tech inspection and make sure the car will pass.
2) Show up to the event with an open mind.
3) Chill you are in the learning mode, not racing, that's a year or two away.
4) Make sure you attend every class session and listen.
5) Meet your instructor before the first session to discuss your goals.
6) Chill you are in the learning mode, not racing that's a year or two away.
7) Listen to your instructor we don't make things up.
8) Chill you are in the learning mode, not racing that's a year or two away.
8) Sign up for as many events as your budget can afford.

Notice there was nothing about mods, tires, suspensions, etc. Do waste your money on track time. If you want to, or have to mod your car, invest the money in seats like Sparco's and a good set of 6 point harnesses.

On last thing if you are in the NASA TX region from time to time we have Pro Racers who will guest instruct. All of us regular instructors get jealous of students who get lucky enough to have the Pro Racer, cause we all can learn more.

OK I think I am at a post count which opens the door to PM's etc. My two cents and back in the dark I go. I do hope to see some of you and possible get the chance to instruct at a NASA TX event, or an Apex driving event, or even a BMW Lone Star event.

This thread sucks now.

Direzza DZ101 or Direzza Sport Z1 Star Spec? I've got a friend with a VW who is looking for some "inexpensive" dual use tires.

Interesting, TR has all the fitments for the StarSpec listed as "Closeout"

G, where have you been? Z1 Star Specs are so totally replaced by Z2 Star Specs! Wake up, man! It's all about the Z2 and the BFG Rival now.

Edit: sorry, the "ZII". They dropped Star Spec apparently. ZII at Tire Rack

Well, I'm feeling ritarded. I haven't paid attention to tires as I'm already sitting on 3 damn sets, and more information just makes me spend more money :bang:

Good info though :giggle:

Try out the BFG Rival...Has anyone ran the ZII at the track yet? The Z1s would grease up and I want to know if they improved that on the successor.