Recommend me some noob track day tires - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


Wheels and Tires All things related to Miata Wheels and Tires.
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 11-12-2012, 01:29 AM   #1
Junior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (4)
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Athens GA
Posts: 434
Total Cats: 3
Default Recommend me some noob track day tires

Hey All,

I got myself some 6UL 15x9 for mounting track tires. My original plan was to get some 225/45 NT01 tires for it. I then found federal 205/50, it is real cheap and seems to be an ok track tire.

I am total track day noob. Can 205/50R15 tires be mounted on 15x9 6ULs? Will it work ok as track tire setup?

Feel free to give me some advice.

Thanks,
-Raj
redrider706 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2012, 03:13 AM   #2
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 146
Total Cats: 3
Default

Some 205s will fit on 15x9s, not sure about the ones you mentioned though. If you're new to track days, you can't go wrong with Hankook R-S3s. They will last a while, you can drive them on the street, they communicate well, and they're pretty fast.

Edit: And cheaper than NT-01s.
Nate99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2012, 11:19 PM   #3
Junior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (4)
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Athens GA
Posts: 434
Total Cats: 3
Default

Thanks for the info Nate. I will check them out.

-Raj
redrider706 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2012, 11:35 PM   #4
Junior Member
iTrader: (9)
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: SFBay
Posts: 339
Total Cats: 39
Default

Yeah, NT01s are pretty intense for a first time driver. RS-3 or Dunlop Star Specs are probably a better choice for a beginner.
scenturion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2012, 01:05 AM   #5
Tour de Franzia
iTrader: (6)
 
hustler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,114
Total Cats: 351
Default

You should probably run on ****-rubber the first few days, but running on NT-01 won't be dangerous or anything. It's more about not wasting tire-money while you are a newb than anything else.
hustler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2012, 01:47 AM   #6
Junior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (4)
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Athens GA
Posts: 434
Total Cats: 3
Default

Would RS3 be considered as **** track tire? Emilio, in an other thread indicated that they were going to run Federal RS 595-R on their 25hrs of Thunderhill race. I wonder if they are going to run it on 15x9 or 15x8. Maybe Savington or Emilio might pop in and comment.

Thanks for the info.
-Raj
redrider706 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2012, 05:08 AM   #7
Cpt. Slow
iTrader: (25)
 
curly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Oregon City, OR
Posts: 12,105
Total Cats: 518
Default

I've kept my tires at around $60 a piece and used falken 512s, toyo proxxes 4s, and now nitto neo gens. Havent had any complaints with any of them. Great in the Oregon rain, last forever, heat up on the track. Yes you sacrifice grip, but I'm not racing competitively.
curly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2012, 09:09 AM   #8
Tour de Franzia
iTrader: (6)
 
hustler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,114
Total Cats: 351
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by redrider706 View Post
Would RS3 be considered as **** track tire? Emilio, in an other thread indicated that they were going to run Federal RS 595-R on their 25hrs of Thunderhill race. I wonder if they are going to run it on 15x9 or 15x8. Maybe Savington or Emilio might pop in and comment.

Thanks for the info.
-Raj
Do you know how to trail-brake with extreme prejudice? Can you slide the car from apex to paint? Can you back-in the car on tight corners?

If not, run a shitty tire because this is stuff you need to learn. Running a couple sets of 200 treadwear to learn to slide the car will probably "get you there" faster than running stickier stuff.
hustler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2012, 12:15 PM   #9
Junior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (4)
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Athens GA
Posts: 434
Total Cats: 3
Default

Nope, I can't trail brake or any of the things you mentioned.

I have falken 512s on 7 inch wheels now. I think I will just run them for a few track days and see how I fare.

Thanks,
-Raj
redrider706 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2012, 12:27 PM   #10
Moderator
iTrader: (11)
 
sixshooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 15,633
Total Cats: 1,559
Default

Hustler's right. You want to learn on less grippy tires because they will let you find the limits of the car's handling and let you learn how to handle it at the limit at much safer speeds. Then increase grip later, after you are comfortable practicing catching the car over and over when it tries to spin out. The sticky tires will cover your initial mistakes and cause you to get over your head quickly with no skills to save the car or yourself.
sixshooter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2012, 01:00 PM   #11
Tour de Franzia
iTrader: (6)
 
hustler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,114
Total Cats: 351
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sixshooter View Post
Hustler's right. You want to learn on less grippy tires because they will let you find the limits of the car's handling and let you learn how to handle it at the limit at much safer speeds. Then increase grip later, after you are comfortable practicing catching the car over and over when it tries to spin out. The sticky tires will cover your initial mistakes and cause you to get over your head quickly with no skills to save the car or yourself.
My $.04
**** rubber will let you lock-up without cording a tire and will teach you car control when you start driving the car sideways down the track. When you can back-in the car in a tightening, off-camber, trail-braking turn, you are ready for the fancy rubber. When the car and driver become "horse and rider", you'll know what I mean. Car placement and dynamics will become a motor function to a degree, not an effort to use the input devices as a correction. It's not about the tire covering mistakes, it's about learning car control on a tire with less grip.

I think the best practice or newb tire out there is a cylded-out r-compound. They still break-away clean and predictably, they just make very little grip. You should spend all your money on Xidas, bushings, swaybars, and brakes. Get the car set-up perfectly and run shitty tires. If someone tells you that you "don't have enough experience to use all of that good shock valving and expensive set-up stuff," disregard everything they've told you...which means 90% of people at the track no nothing they speak of.

BTW, you need a lap timer with over/under prediction. I wasted a lot of tires/brakes/fuel before I bought a lap timer.
hustler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2012, 01:26 PM   #12
Elite Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 3,325
Total Cats: 235
Default

Thanks, good stuff Hustler.

I just ordered my Xidas last night

Already have some all-seasons ready to go to learn on ($60 Kuhmos FTW), too bad everything up here is done until 2013.
thenuge26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2012, 02:07 PM   #13
Moderator
iTrader: (11)
 
sixshooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 15,633
Total Cats: 1,559
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by thenuge26 View Post
too bad everything up here is done until 2013.
Road Atlanta December 1-2 with NASA Southeast Region. The weather is much better in ATL than Indy in December.
sixshooter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2012, 02:38 PM   #14
Elite Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 3,325
Total Cats: 235
Default

Just a quick 10 hour drive down I-65! That's a long way to go without a trailer. If anyone else from Indy is trailering their car down and have space for another, I am in! Otherwise I would be way too nervous whoopin on my ride home.

Any open days left at Autobahn CC? That's only 2 and a half hours or so for me.
thenuge26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2012, 03:39 PM   #15
Elite Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Mobius's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 3,176
Total Cats: 261
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by redrider706 View Post
Would RS3 be considered as **** track tire? Emilio, in an other thread indicated that they were going to run Federal RS 595-R on their 25hrs of Thunderhill race. I wonder if they are going to run it on 15x9 or 15x8. Maybe Savington or Emilio might pop in and comment.

Thanks for the info.
-Raj
RS3 is definitely not a crappy track tire. I have asked in that thread specifically why they are going with the Federals. There's been no response yet but I will hazard a few guesses based on my google research of the Federal 595 rsr.

a) the RS3's like heat. Thunderhill can have sub-freezing temperatures. If there's any precipitation at all then the RS3's probably could not be kept up to temp and would not grip well.

b) what information I can find on the 595 RSR's indicates they warm up faster and do well in cold temperatures, and have a lower optimal temp

c) the RS3's only come in 225/45 for 15". The Federals are 205/50. I don't know if there's a point penalty between the two sizes for the classes 949 is running in but the narrower 205 should be better if there's any rain. Someone correct me if I'm wrong on this, that's my understanding. The wider tire would hydroplane easier.
Mobius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2012, 04:08 PM   #16
Senior Member
iTrader: (6)
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 924
Total Cats: 16
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post
My $.04
**** rubber will let you lock-up without cording a tire and will teach you car control when you start driving the car sideways down the track. When you can back-in the car in a tightening, off-camber, trail-braking turn, you are ready for the fancy rubber. When the car and driver become "horse and rider", you'll know what I mean. Car placement and dynamics will become a motor function to a degree, not an effort to use the input devices as a correction. It's not about the tire covering mistakes, it's about learning car control on a tire with less grip.

I think the best practice or newb tire out there is a cylded-out r-compound. They still break-away clean and predictably, they just make very little grip. You should spend all your money on Xidas, bushings, swaybars, and brakes. Get the car set-up perfectly and run shitty tires. If someone tells you that you "don't have enough experience to use all of that good shock valving and expensive set-up stuff," disregard everything they've told you...which means 90% of people at the track no nothing they speak of.

BTW, you need a lap timer with over/under prediction. I wasted a lot of tires/brakes/fuel before I bought a lap timer.
Hustler, Im currently running potenza RE-11, 180 treadwear. They are pretty much done, and will be done after my next weekend. If I am still in the learning stages, would I be best to up the tire wear a tad, or would sticking with another set of RE-11's be a decent choice?
Gryff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2012, 07:25 PM   #17
Moderator
iTrader: (11)
 
sixshooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 15,633
Total Cats: 1,559
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gryff View Post
If I am still in the learning stages, would I be best to up the tire wear a tad?
I think the following bit is the most important part of figuring out the answer to the question.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gryff View Post
University of North Carolina of Charlotte, Full Time student. Charlotte, NC.
sixshooter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2012, 07:39 PM   #18
Tour de Franzia
iTrader: (6)
 
hustler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,114
Total Cats: 351
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gryff View Post
Hustler, Im currently running potenza RE-11, 180 treadwear. They are pretty much done, and will be done after my next weekend. If I am still in the learning stages, would I be best to up the tire wear a tad, or would sticking with another set of RE-11's be a decent choice?
Run em till they cord then buy another set, or see what 949 says about the Federal after the race because 949 isn't going to say **** about it now and I don't blame them. I hope that doesn't sound like he/they are holding out. They've given a mega-ton of information to us, you have to work for some of it because information is more valuable than parts.

If I were you, I'd buy SM take-offs until you have a year or so under your belt. After the amount I grew over the last few months, I'm getting another set of wheels for "junk rubber" to practice on. Eventually I'll warm-up on RS-3, then run SM6 or NT-01 "for the money" depending upon class. NT-01 are super-fast for about 15 sessions, then it's over. I can go ~30-40 sessions on them, but they aren't fast after the first 15 sessions.
hustler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2012, 07:43 PM   #19
Senior Member
iTrader: (6)
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 924
Total Cats: 16
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post
Run em till they cord then buy another set, or see what 949 says about the Federal after the race because 949 isn't going to say **** about it now and I don't blame them. I hope that doesn't sound like he/they are holding out. They've given a mega-ton of information to us, you have to work for some of it because information is more valuable than parts.
Touche six.

Yeah, I had a feeling that they would be tight lipped about the federals until at least after the 25, I dont blame them either. Ill do that, wait until they chord, and see what is avaliable to me at the time.
Gryff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2012, 08:47 PM   #20
Junior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (4)
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Athens GA
Posts: 434
Total Cats: 3
Default

Here is my plan, feel free to critique it. I have some money invested in it and it is gonna take a while for me to buy new shiny parts (Xidas, bigger brakes etc..).

I have a set of race konis (700/400 springs. Kraig Klippel's old setup). I also have the RB front hollow sway bar and stock rear sway bars. Mounting these should be faster (One weekend hopefully. I can't work during the week days/nights). I will do the polyurethane bushings and grease fittings later. I am going to do a few trackdays using my street tires (Falken 512) and then switch over to used Toyo RA1 (Came with the 6UL) till I wear them out. I am going to try and borrow a traqmate setup for the initial runs.

I will then re-evaluate my setup and skills and ask for more advice.

-Raj
redrider706 is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New M62 Miata owner Pist0n Meet and Greet 4 10-01-2015 09:18 PM
Leaky Wilwoods mx592 Suspension, Brakes, Drivetrain 1 10-01-2015 01:45 AM
01-05 Fab9 PNP COPs (used) FrankB Miata parts for sale/trade 6 09-30-2015 12:48 PM
WTB HPDE miata - Texas Voltwings Cars for sale/trade 0 09-27-2015 07:40 PM
Recommended Tire Temp for best friction thumpetto007 Race Prep 4 09-27-2015 06:16 PM


Tags
15x9, 6ul, federal tire, nt01, trackday

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:05 AM.