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Old 01-31-2014, 12:59 AM   #1
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Default Rivals or R1R's?

Bought wheels for the SAAB today. As much as I tried I can't fit 15x8's so I went with the 15x7 40mm offset Konig Rewinds. They were the most "vintage" looking wheels that I could find, they were only $104 shipped from Good-Win Racing and the offset was as good as I could get and they clear big brake kits. I'll just be running the MTuned Corrado rotor kit that I have so nothing huge.

So, I'm stuck with 205/50/15's. That looks like it leaves me with the BFG Rivals in 205/50/15 for $118 ea http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....omCompare1=yes

Or the Toyo R1R for $122. http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....omCompare1=yes

I guess I can consider the Kumho XS for $107 or Dunlop Dizerra for $109 as well.

The car will be primarily a track car but might see some street days just for fun. I will trailer to the track but I have a 20 mile commute each way if I drove it to work. I do plan to do this sometimes.

Thoughts?
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Old 01-31-2014, 02:32 AM   #2
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Andy is the expert. Check out the latest Grassroots mag too.
https://www.facebook.com/notes/holli...09412972476008
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Old 01-31-2014, 04:52 AM   #3
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There are also the Toyo Proxes RR tires in that size...

Proxes RR | Toyo Tires

From what I hear, they're worth about 2 seconds over Rivals on a 2 minute road coarse.

Not sure if you knew about them or not... and while they're neither Rivals or R1Rs, they seem pretty popular with the Super Miata/Miata Challenge folks.
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Old 01-31-2014, 10:01 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricJ View Post
Andy is the expert. Check out the latest Grassroots mag too.
https://www.facebook.com/notes/holli...09412972476008
Thanks for that. Looks like the Rivals for best all-around. I'll get a set on order.
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Old 01-31-2014, 11:26 AM   #5
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There is a LOT of debate on this in the miata autox world these days.. When the Rivals came out everyone said OMG THEY ARE TEH BETTER TYRE! but last year showed that wasn't really the case.

I run the Toyos, and I will not be making the switch.

In the dry they're about the same. The limit of grip is about the same--although some say it's easier to find the limit on the Rivals. They speak to you a little more, and let you know where you're at. Driving on the dry on the Toyos is very much about the feel of the car. I don't mean to sound all mystical or whatever, but you really do have to become more "one" with the car and "feel" where you're at in the grip limit. The Rivals give you a bit more feedback and let you know when they're getting close to letting go.

In the wet, the toyos FAR outstrip the rivals. And I mean by a LONG shot.

A buddy from a local car club sold me his nearly dead, almost corded, hardly any tread left Toyos (I got all 4 for like $100, and as any user of this tyre knows they grip till they're bald and for a while after that too) and then it rained for that event.

I beat him by over a full second if I recall correctly--me on bald Toyos and him on nearly new rivals--and he's a better driver than me. He beat me by multiple seconds at every other event that year.

---

They're talking about banning the toyos from ST class, and if that happens the Rivals will be the tyre to get.. but for now, I think the toyos are still top. It's SO close in the dry, and the toyos are far better in the wet..

Just my two pennies.
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Old 01-31-2014, 11:28 AM   #6
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^as an aside, he and I chatted at the end of the season and he mentioned being displeased with his switch--especially due to the wet event where I ended up beating him by a fair bit. We both know he's the better driver, and his car was better prepared (I was running in STS because of IHE, but on stock suspension, his car was fully STS prepped--granted the softer stock suspension may have helped me in the rain as well) and his exact words were "I never should have sold you those toyos."
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Old 01-31-2014, 01:25 PM   #7
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Thanks for the info but autocross isn't relevant in my case . This will be track only. For me there is more concern about how they hold up and perform after driving for 20 minutes, not 1. Also wet doesn't bother me either. If it's wet I don't HAVE to go. It's a track day. I'll catch the next one.
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Old 01-31-2014, 01:31 PM   #8
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In that case my knowledge is fairly limited, except that I do know the r1rs tend to feel a bit "greasy" when they get real warm. There's definitely a happy middle with them, but on a real hot day by my 4th run I'm spraying them with water to cool them off.. May not be what you need.
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Old 01-31-2014, 01:33 PM   #9
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I will say, the Rivals are REALLY durable. That's pretty important to me. Been tracking and DD them. Not competing -- just go to the track for fun.

I know Andy. I'm not sure I would trust him 100%. Just sayin'.
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Old 01-31-2014, 02:49 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hornetball View Post
I will say, the Rivals are REALLY durable. That's pretty important to me. Been tracking and DD them. Not competing -- just go to the track for fun.

I know Andy. I'm not sure I would trust him 100%. Just sayin'.
They are 200 treadwear vs 140 so I hoped this would be the case. I'll take durable and and if they last for extra weekend and give up a second per lap I'm happy.
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Old 01-31-2014, 06:13 PM   #11
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195 r1r vote here with their spécial compound or RR 205.
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Old 01-31-2014, 06:27 PM   #12
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195 R1R will likely overheat and be too greasy for the track. That tire is a magic bit of rubber that is awesome for autocross for 1? class?

Stein - if your main usage of the tire will be tracking and not autocross, I'd recommend the Rival
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Old 02-01-2014, 01:16 AM   #13
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The only time it may see autox is if I take it once to Lincoln just to show the car to the people I used to autox with. The nationals site is 15 minutes from my house. Otherwise track only. Ordering the Rivals.
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Old 02-01-2014, 03:56 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mlev View Post
They're talking about banning the toyos from ST class, and if that happens the Rivals will be the tyre to get.. but for now, I think the toyos are still top. It's SO close in the dry, and the toyos are far better in the wet..

Just my two pennies.
RS3>Rival for autox.

My usual co-driver and I had the 225 RS3 on a 15x8 be a few tenths faster than a 225 rival on a 15x9 on a 45-ish second course. Both tires were similar in age and wear, ran them on my STR NB. Sure it was only one event, surface may of favored one or the other, lots of variables. But after driving both back to the back I'm 100% confident the RS3 will be faster, unless it's colder and then I'll mount the 195 toyos on the car
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Old 02-01-2014, 05:51 PM   #15
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I agree that the RS3's are better than the Rivals but the OP is working with a 7" rim here. Not enough for the 225 RS3's.

Out of the 2 (R1R's and Rivals) I'd take the rivals for track duty. R1R's don't like heat.
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Old 02-02-2014, 01:46 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stein View Post
Bought wheels for the SAAB today. As much as I tried I can't fit 15x8's so I went with the 15x7 40mm offset Konig Rewinds.

Thoughts?
We are talking SAAB 9-3 here ? What kind of track ? Time trial, DE, ???

Comments we're refering to miata...
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Old 02-02-2014, 03:04 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joyrider View Post
We are talking SAAB 9-3 here ?
Not exactly...https://www.miataturbo.net/build-thr...ab-96-a-63327/
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Old 02-03-2014, 11:39 AM   #18
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This is my interpretation of this thread...



Stein - Hey gehs, which are better for tracking, Rivals or R1Rs? No autocross.

Everyone - Rivals suck for autocross...R1R is bestest autocross tire....RS3 is better than rival for autocross...... etc, etc.

Stein - Oh, uh, thanks for the info but I won't be autocrossing, track only.

Everyone - Rivals suck for autocross...R1R is bestest autocross tire....RS3 is better than rival for autocross...... etc, etc.



It seems half of you douchenozzles didn't even read the original post...
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Old 02-03-2014, 09:26 PM   #19
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I like my Rivals for track tires. I use them for Test/Tune days, to save my RRs, and when I drive my Miata to the track. They have a stiffer sidewall than RS3s and XSs; and seem closer to the RRs in feel than the RS3s or XSs. I've never driven an R1R.
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Old 02-06-2014, 03:58 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricJ View Post
I've never driven an R1R.
That's because you don't autocross?
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