Sticky street tire crew, represent!
 

It's getting to be time for a new set of rubber- the tread on my Bridgestone RE-01Rs has finally just about disappeared, and I'll probably need to replace them within the next six months or so. (Since we're in the dry season, I'm just going to go ahead and run them until they turn into slicks.) Frankly, I am amazed at how long these tires lasted.

Wheels are 15x7 +35, and the car is a '90, so I don't have gobs of fender clearance. (And no, I'm not going to roll the damn fenders. I just painted them.)

In the absence of reasons to the contrary, I'd probably tend to replace them with the RE-11 in 205/50/15 simply out of habit, though I'm open to other opinions. I've heard good things about the Z1 Star Spec, the R-S3 and the Ecsta XS.

I'm also curious to hear the first-hand accounts of those running tires like the Toyo R1R and RA1 in a daily-driver environment, specifically in the winter months. Winter around here means morning temperatures in the 40s, afternoons in the 50s and 60s.

It'd be nice if I can get 10,000 miles out of 'em, but that's from from an absolute requirement- dry grip and cornering stability are the only things that really matter. Tires are cheap compared to crash damage and wrongful-death lawsuits. The last thing I need is a repeat of the flaming, radioactive puppies incident.

I'm running the 215/45/16 XS right now. I'll say in the cold they arent the greatest, earlier last month when the temps were dipping into the 30-40s in the morning, the tires would hop just simply pulling out of my parking spot and were incredibly easy to break loose. once they warmed up they were fine, but they make me nervous. Otherwise they are very predictable and do their job and I feel okay with them in the rain...in fact I'm much enjoying rain driving righ tnow cause I can control the rear very well.

i keep hearing great things about star specs and rs3.

I have Yokohama ES100 on my car. No idea if they're available in your size, but I love them.

RS3 is awesomesauce
XS may as well be slicks when it rains but have baller dry grip
615k makes for a great street tire but sucks donkey balls on the track

You want 15x8 6ULs and RS3s. 225 ftw

Just get some Hankook Z214s in C51 compound... :giggle:

Several local guys that are far more hardcore than I am have run just about all of the sticky street tires on their cars at their local test track (as well as several others in the Southeast) and - last time I checked with them - decided the RS-3 offered the best package of tire life + grip.

I really don't think you can go wrong with either of the XS, Star Spec or RS-3 for your purposes.

Still loving my Star Specs. Like most grippy summer tires they get pretty hard once the temp drops below 40° or so, but above that they grip like crazy.

From Hankook's website::giggle:

Google: "Rule 34 Hankook"


So, yeah. A tire with "Stylish fire flame tattoos on tread." Given that the smallest one they make is a 225/45/15, any first-hand experience out there fitting these on an early NA with 15x7 +35 wheels?

I'm running 225 RS3s on 8" 6ULs that I DD'd for about 5-6k miles, plus 2 track days. They are holding up great and I've had no real issues. They are fine in the rain unless I hit really deep puddles and then they hydroplane simply because the car is so light and the tire is so wide. Normal rain is no issue.

My ONLY complaint about the RS3s is the fact that they are HEAVY. Like "What the f--- is wrong with my car?!" heavy. I've got a set of OE sized 195/50 Yoko sDrives on factory NB 15's that I've been DDing recently. Grip is good but nothing like that big ass RS3. The car definitely feels more nimble now. I can't crank on the throttle through a corner anymore and not expect the rear to step out :)

I dont have any of the tires you mentioned, but I have federal 595 RS-R's, theyre 140 treadwear like the RS3's.

Ive currently got 3k miles on, with about 1/64" of tread worn away. These tires drive comparably to an RS3 but reaches their limit a little quicker. Right now Im guessing that these tires will heat cycle out before the tread disappears, in the typical federal way.

I should add that before the 225 RS3, I was running 205 sDrives on my 8" 6ULs, so that may account for some of the WTF factor above.

My next street tires will be 195 or 205 StarSpecs on whatever rims (probably another set of 6ULs) and I've already got 205 NT01s for track days. I'm just waiting to wear out the RS3s or sell them off. They just don't seem to wear on a car this light/underpowered. I know EVO guys who autoX & DD the RS3 and they... don't last this long.

They will fit fine. But they look fat on a 7.5 wheel...so they would look fatter on yours.

Do you need Rain traction?

Toyo r1r - Fantastic all around. Rain, Dry and Colder temps. If auto-xed they overheat in higher temps and the tread blocks will get worn away quick like. On the street they are fine. You should be able to get 10k out of them

RS3's - VERY good dry hot weather tire. Not as good in colder temps below 60's. Wet is not good.

Kumho XS - Like RS3's but less grip in dry....other then that same everything else.

Dunlops - Like R1R's BUT a little less dry grip. Same wet traction (very good) and are better in very cold temps...even though they feel a little hard when they get into 30's. Life is much better then R1R's. 10k+ easy but they cost more.

Srsly?

TireRack lists the 225 Hankook at 22 lbs, vs 21 lbs for the both the Bridgestone RE-11 and Dunlop Z1 in 205 width.

Or do you just mean heavy as in "Wow, the steering sure is stiff now"?


It's funny that you mention this.

As the current RE-01Rs have aged, they've definitely hardened a bit. And oddly, I've found that while the rear end of the car is quite easy to slide out if I really goose it hard around a bend, it is amazingly controllable.

It's sort of like practicing stalls in a Cessna 172; very easy to start, and yet once you let go, it tends to automatically recover itself. It's a very idiot-resistant configuration, like the rear end wants to save you from being a douchebag. It'll humor you if you tell it "Ok, it is time to start sliding now," and then as soon as you let off the power, the back end of the car says "So, we're done with that now? Great- I'm going to just go ahead and start gripping again so that you won't be killed, if that's ok with you."

Is this the fastest way to get around a corner? Of course not. But it sure as hell is fun to do when there's no lap-timer involved.

R1R's....in the rain are the bestest thing ever.

I'm just going to leave this here...

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1337711479

We don't get much rain down here in San Diego, so it's not typically a serious concern. Typically just a few days per year that the water actually accumulates on the ground, and when the puddles do get to any depth, you can count on going surfing regardless of what tires you've got on.



I seem to recall there being some mixed reviews when they came out- people claiming "Oh, they're no better than tire X, and last half as long." But if they really do offer the winning combination of dry grip and cool-weather performance, then they're definitely something to look at. In the winter, we get a lot of days where the temperatures hover in the 50s for a month at a time, and I need a tire that performs well right out of the garage in these temps. The concept of warming up the tires doesn't translate well into a daily commuter.



So that's one vote for the R1R, and then one vote for the Dunlop.

Temps here never get into the 30s. Literally, it just doesn't happen. Mid 40s happens frequently in the winter.

And cost? Seriously- at the levels we're talking about here, money is literally no object. Paying $130 per tire vs. $115 is completely irrelevant, even if we're talking about 5,000 miles vs. 10,000 miles.

Hmm.

That's impressive.

might as well get RA1s.

Sweet Jesus! I may need to reevaluate my tire selection.

Oh, right. That's why I had XSes on my old 15x7 RPF-1s. :)

Don't overthink this.

Buy one of each, best of all worlds :giggle:

I've actually seen a couple of folks run them on the street here in SoCal, and I would certainly be open to running the RA1 or the NT01, however my understanding is that they absolutely suck when cold.


Space for tire storage at my place is finite. I already have a set of hollow-spoke 14s with El Guapo brand all-season tires stacked up in the living room next to the front door, crowned with a steel spare. (I honestly have no idea why I have more compact spares than cars. If anybody needs one, lemme know.)

Still have T1R's on mine. Dry, wet, snow, slush, hot, cold, etc., they seem to act the same year round.

I did have Ecsta's before these and those were ---- in comparison.

If not care about the wet traction some Kumho XS would do fine for you then. Hell some new Azenis would be fine also.

i dont understand, my wet traction is fine.

I had a set of T1Rs several years ago, and I didn't care for them at all. They always struck me as sort of a compromise tire in the same class as the Eagle F1. It probably didn't help my impression of them that they were on the red car when I spun it backwards off a mountain road at a fairly high rate of speed and rear-ended a tree.

Worst recommendation in this thread. ES100 isn't even in the same league. I had a set on my 240sx and hated them...

Apparently rleete has never experienced good tires if he's pleased with ES100s.

I ran RS-2s on my car for a couple years and was generally very impressed with them. Apparently the RS-3s are better in just about every way, if that's the case then they should be a pretty darn good tire. Only downside was they were a bit not-grippy below 40F

I'd have to vote for star specs, I wouldn't recommend RS3s because you would need 225s. I've been there done that on a 7" rim, it's a little numb, no point if you have the star specs available.

Local guy has done 20 track days on a set of 205s on his NA, 2 or 3 of those were wet, and towards the end of those 20 track days. They still have plenty of tread left, but they're heat cycled to death. That's enough for me, they're my next set of tires.

All and all for daily tires I would do Star Specs....problem is price. I think they are a bit out there and you HAVE to buy them from Tire Crack.

+1

Don't run an NT01 on the street, you will destroy them in short order. I've got a friend who killed a set in 4-5k (or less) on his daily. 225 NT01 on 8" 6UL on a 2554'd 95 NA. (fitment was fine BTW, no rubbing or pulling required IIRC)

Are the NB Sport spares larger than the standard donuts for fitting over the big brakes? I'm wondering if you have one, as I might be interested. I don't see myself in SD anytime soon though.

I believe I read somewhere that they are now a TireCrack exclusive.

Oh, I don't know. The T1R recommendation was pretty awful as well. I'd say that the two recommendations are about equal in their worthlessness and deservance of scorn and ridicule.


That's what bugs me about the RS3. I'd prefer to stick with the wheels I have now, as they're relatively light, not at all ugly, and fit the car. 15x8 wheels are not likely to clear the fenders on a '90, especially one with greater-than-stock compression travel.


Although, I could attempt to start a styling trend. Rather than stretching 185 tires onto 10" wheels, we could try to squeeze a 245 tire onto a 6" wheel.


Huh?

First, re-read what I wrote earlier. When we're talking about a difference of $100 or less between sets, on a set of tires that will most likely last for 3-4 years or more given the relatively low mileage which I put on the car, price is completely irrelevant. I waste more money than that on certified organic weasel polish.

Second, TR lists the 205/50/15 Star-Spec at $115 each. That's $22/ea less than the RE-11 and $8 less than the R1R.



The R1Rs are looking more and more attractive as I read some of the reviews out there...


It's funny, really. I can remember years ago we were all pissing and moaning about how there weren't any decent street tires out there to compete with the 615. Now I wish there were fewer to choose from. :rolleyes:

Edit:

Cool. Get r1rs. Get the 195's thought. They have magic compound in them.

I have 225/45/15 RS3 on my miata and 215/sumthing/17 XS's on my gf's WRX.

They are comparable in grip and sidewall. I don't know about wet because I never drive the miata in the wet (although I do know the XS's suck in the rain for hydroplaning). The one bad thing about the XS is that they are STUPID LOUD. like so loud they actually makes my gf's 3" ebay exhaust seem quiet.

Oh and as far as snow... XS's were epicly fun in the October snowstorm we had in CT. Drove the car 50 miles in the storm. Thank god it was AWD so I could at least move forward somewhat.

And what, exactly is supposed to be so bad about them? The only complaint I have is that they are a bit loud. Quite a lot of road noise.

?

Are you being serious? Is there some kind of data to substantiate this?

I DD on 205 star specs; 15x8 +20 TRmotorsports wheels. I absolutely love them. They don't give me issues in cold weather, or rain, as I was led to believe. After about 1500miles, the show no appreciable wear, even with more than 2* of camber.

I see no reason I will not get 10k and 10+ autox events out of them. In all honesty, they'll probably be replaced with 225s for next season before the current 205s run out.

The 195 toyo is know as the "pixie dust" tire, because its extremely sticky compound has been proved to extend to the 2/32 layers. Many tires have differential compounds through the tread. The 225 tire does not appear to have the same thread compound through-out. No other sizes has had extensive research done to them, so for the time being the 195 is the only magic tire.

For street driving, there's no reason to run a r1r. You will not benefit from the consistent compound, since I assume you will not be shaving them. With a compound like the r1r's; the tire will heat cycle out before you run the tread down.


For DD, you want the XS, the star spec, or the re-11. The toyo is just overkill.

This is exactly what I found with my first set of 205 sDrives (and its the reason I'm on 195 sDrives now.) The only reason I sold my 205s was to get into the "better" and "more aggressive" RS3. I'll be going with StarSpecs next time I need to buy DD tires.

By all accounts, you just can't loose with the 'Specs.

I was not happy with my 205 star specs. Calling them a high performance tire (as yoko does), is not accurate. They heat soak like mother-------, and then loose all grip.


EO2K: How do you like your RS3s? Do you have any issues getting them heated up with such a light car?

I have not run any of the others, but I'm really impressed with the 205/50 XSs on my summer wheels (15x6).

I've tracked them once (very predictable breakaway point, whether it was lap 2 or 10), drove on them over the winter here in Colorado down to the mid 20's occasionally (no snow though), and only pulled them off a few months ago when the Miata became my DD...I can't stomach wasting the rubber on them for an uber boring commute. Bought some ZE912s for that task.

I can't comment on rain traction because it never rains here, but in the dry they stick harder than I'm willing to test on most public roads. I have never even broken them loose on my favorite roads with which I am intimately familiar, but not from a lack of trying. But on the track day I was willing to push them, and found they gave up grip in a very controlled manner, no snap oversteer even on my shitty suspension...the back end drifted smoothly around and came just back as nicely.

There was a definite cutoff temp-wise WRT to how they felt (mid 50's seemed to be pretty consistent), but once they were driven a few miles on a sunny day even at those temps they felt pretty good.

I'd guess that I will get 10K miles out of them even with another track day or two. There are probably 4K miles + 1 track day on them already and are perhaps not quite halfway worn, and I put a LOT of those miles on them up in the mountains beating on them.

What Scott said.

I just started dailying RA1s but I doubt they'll see much below 50 degrees.

They replaced ES100s which would not hook up at all in my v8 car through 1st and in 2nd from a roll with no prior spin and still lacking into 3rd. RA1s hook well into 2nd from a roll.

I could start from a roll in 2nd gear and the ES100 would just spin and spin. Only reason they're OEM on the NBS is the stupid size.

Ouch, that sounds somewhat less than ideal. What are you doing to get them to go away like that?
I like the RS3 a lot, they have enough grip on the street when cold that I don't ever worry about them. I've run the RS3s @ THill and most recently, 2 days out at Laguna for the Miatas @ MRLS event. Saturday it rained like a bastard the whole time but I never worried about traction. Sunday it dried out and I really got to push it and get them hot. They warm up nicely and never seemed to get greasy in any of my 20 minute sessions at MRLS (or THill. My brakes are a whole other story...) The grip is GREAT when they are hot but it does take a couple of laps to get there. (As a disclaimer, I'm still a novice so take this with a grain of salt. I KNOW I drive like a -----.)

AutoX is another matter entirely. Either I don't drive hard enough or the runs aren't long enough to get significant heat into the tire. This is 2300-ish lbs of NB @ 165-ish HP. I know what these things will do once they get warm, and I never seem to be able to push them that far in our 50-80 second courses. But are they better than my Yokos for AX? You bet your ass they are!

The comments about the RS3s being a bit slick when cold are accurate. Below 40 degrees, you've got to be careful - it's really what I would consider an unacceptable tire below 40 degrees, but I use a snow tire in winter. From 40 to about 60 degrees, they gradually improve from acceptable to great, and finally at about 70 degrees they turn into road velcro. My own mileage calculations have put it about 12,000 miles. 10K if you leave them on the rears, 15k if you leave them on the fronts, 12k if you rotate.

Why even continue tlaking about RS3s? its not like Joe can even source a set :)

What temps did you Auto-X them in? My wife co-drives with me....i get them nice and sticky withing the first run. Temps have to be in the 80's though. They do not overheat and you can beat on them alll day and they will love you for it.

They can be had, you're just too proud to do what needs doing to get them.

At least one of them is gonna have some grip eh? :bowrofl:

if oyu think that, you don't even know me ;)

Hey I've lurked and broke the search button here for a while now. Ed's told me what he had to do to get his MS tunned :giggle:

I'm glad SOMEONE finally noticed that :rofl:

Almost anything really. Autox on a 70* day would have them heat soaked in 4 runs. 85*+ and they'd be useless after 2. Mind you this is with 120+ cars so it wasn't like I was running them over and over again. I tried experimenting with pressures, but it didn't seem to help. After about 6 months off DD and autox, they were noticeably less grippy; a victim of heat cycles.

I've toyed with the idea of buying another set, just for the fun of testing. Use controled enviorments/courses, experiment with a wider range of pressure and cool down techniques. But for my money, I think I'll probably just buy another set of dunlops which work wonderfully with little to no effort. ;)



I'm surprised you felt the RS3s did so well in the rain. Granted the whole "summer tires suck in the wet" concept is ridiculous, my only experience with Hankooks was on a set of RS2s, in a downpour, doing 30 on the highway with the hazard lights on. :rofl: They were great at the event (on a friends mazda3) but didn't enjoy the trip getting there. I was tempted to get the 'Kooks myself, but was worried I could keep them hot enough at autox with such a light car. Perhaps next season will be a decision between 225 Star Specs and RS3's......... How do you like them for cone dodging?

In the last three years I have run RS-2, Star spec, and RS-3. I won't bother with the RS-2 for obvious reasons, but I will say I ordered another set of the RS-3s and I am happily waiting for them to stop being back ordered.

That said, I have an 8" wheel, and I like the 225 better. If I had a 7" wheel, I would probably buy the star specs. Dry traction is better on the RS-3, but I think the Star Spec did a little better in the cold and wet. Also, you can buy them now.

If it never rains in southern California (I think that's a song) and you are interested in dry grip and not worried much about wear, I used 205/50/15 Kumho V710's on the street in my RX7 that I used to autocross. I only drove it on the weekends and the tires are DOT legal. They didn't like puddles but the stickyness of the compound caused them to stick well on wet pavement. The tires lasted about a year and a half (~5k miles). Very sticky and the tire life surprised me. I had them heat cycled by Tire Rack when I ordered them.

You are not a man who likes compromises. So why compromise?

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1337871319

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1337871319

Feel the grip.

I had always heard that tires like that would heat-cycle before they would wear out for street driving.

i bet they would. hell my rt-215s went hard over the years and had plenty of treadwear left.

This is exactly what happened to my friend who was DDing his NT01s. They still had "tread" (if you can call it that) but they were definitely not the same after a while.

Southern California roads are "slippery when dry" simply because it doesn't rain there.

During the one week I did spend in the North LA area, it wasn't just easy to break the tires loose - I thought it felt difficult to keep them attached to the ground. At one point, what would have qualified as "daily rush hour" braking here in Ohio became "holy sh!t, my front tires are locked up already!?".

Couple articles for ya:

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/pro...ire-smackdown/

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/art...-tires-part-1/

I forget which issue has the actual article in it, but it's in my bathroom. I'll check after I drink my coffee.

I run RS-3 because of 9" wheels needing 225, they work nice. I've heard great things about Star Spec's though, guy here runs them on his miata chump car and raves about them.

Just broke down and ordered a set of Star Specs for my daily... 205/50-15 on a 7" rim. I probably would have gone RS3s, but no luck finding them. Tire Rack should have them in by 6/1, Discount Tire didn't have 'em... thanks for the useful thread gays!