street tires for PNW "summers"?
 

Looking for advice on a set of dedicated summer wheel/tires that can handle cool/wet/dirty conditions.

My current 195/50 all seasons can't even handle N/A power if the road is damp, so I'm ready to buy dedicated summer wheels and tires to support my turbo build. This is a MK turbo build with a target of 200-225WHP.

I live north of Seattle, so even the summers are relatively cold and damp. Average low temperatures should be above 50f from late April until early October, so I plan to use the summer setup during these months. I DD the car when it isn't raining hard, but I commute early in the morning and only drive 16 miles. I'm looking for max grip in a tire that can handle cool wet conditions, but not necessarily a ton of standing water. The fun part of my drive is in the first 5 miles, so I'd prefer something that doesn't take a long time to warm up. I also live on a 700 ft gravel road, so I prefer a tread that can shed gravel quickly.
I've got a fender roller, so I'm open to any 15x8 or 15x9 options.

Hoosier h20's

Jk. Neogens have a good rep, so do Dunlop dz102s. Or s drives.

My opinion: run a real summer tire and just don't push it in the wet.

Are Conti DW's available in your size?

Don't think so. Run them on my subie though. Good tire.

summer tires and rain tires don't always have to be different things.

the key is to get a compound that likes the temperature and a pattern that moves water.

Exactly! That's what I'm hoping to find.

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S drive's look like a pretty decent compromise. $80 is a selling point too. Any real reason to push for 15x9 on a street car?

If you want grip more tire helps, but you'll notice more tramlining with a 225 15x9 combo vs something more narrow (depends on the tread pattern as well). I have been happy with S Drives for a daily.

I enjoy my Toyo RA-1's.

Dunlop DZ102's & ZII star specs are listed as 2lbs lighter than all the other 205/50 tires on tire rack. DZ102's look comparable to s drives on paper, and they are cheaper & lighter. Anyone have real world experience with any of these three tires?

I had S-Drives, now on ZII*. S-Drives did fine in the rain for me, and people seem to like them more than the DZ102s. The ZII* has WAY more grip though. On a whole different planet. Definitely louder, harsher, and will wear faster, but for me totally worth it.

Based on my relative positioning between last year's auto-x season finale (dry, S-Drives), and this year's opener (wet, ZII*) I'm estimating that the tire change was worth at least 2 seconds on a 40 second course.

S-Drives had plenty of life left in them when I took them off.

Not a big fan of my ZII Star Specs in the rain. Any sort of standing water and it's hydroplane city.

I'm not really that concerned about hydroplaning. I hardly ever encounter standing water. It's more about cornering traction on wet roads.

I have DZ102s on 15x8 wheels in Colorado. They work well when warm, and are predictable when wet, work down to ~20*f. They move water pretty well. Feedback is vague though. I keep buying them as disposeable street tires because Tire rack has them for like $65/ea every now and then.

Traction is laughable with my 300ish whp and allofthe EFR torque, but that's what the 245 VR1s are for. :party:

Don't drive 95mph in a pouring rain?

I have Star Specs, in 255/35/18 on my BRZ and they are almost down to the wear bars and I've hydroplaned exactly 1 time. Doing 55mph on a divided 4 lane and ran across maybe a 5" deep puddle.

Other than that, don't drive like an ass in the rain. I've done track days on R888s and toasted R1Rs in the rain as well. You have to adjust to the conditions.

This was driving 55 and under on a 55mph road, not even on an interstate. Maybe I'm just spoiled by the Continental DW tires on my old car. Those were amazing in the rain, no comparison.

DWs are the business in the wet.

The DW is being replaced by the ExtremeContact Sport in Feb. 2017, apparently, and I think is going to be offered in a 205/50/15.

Yeah, two totally different tires meant for different things. I had DWs on my NC, and they are fantastic street tires.

That would be like complainng that the DZ101 doesn't have the on track grip of an SM7.

*facepalm*

And the whole purpose of this thread is for street tires.

I have ZII star specs on 15x8s and I like them. They do get loud though. Never had any hydroplaning issues with them.

Star Specs are street tires. And techincally by way of the DOT approval so are Hoosiers and many other Rcomps.

Stahp.

I'm not even sure what you're trying to argue about. I stated my opinion of one of the tires that was brought up and compared them to another performance summer tire.

As of right now, if it's wet out or I see that it's going to rain, I leave the Miata at home and drive the truck, partially because of the tires.

Right now I'm gravitating towards 205/50 ZII star spec's on 15x8 advanti S2's in bronze. The S2's weigh 1.3 lbs more than the S1's, but I think the dark bronze is going to look tits on BRG. It's hard to believe the unsprung rotating mass penalty you get hit with going up in size so little. My current 195/50 on 15x7 combo weighs 28 lbs per corner. ZII's on S2's weigh 31.3 lbs per corner. That's 13.2 lb s total weight penalty! If I go up to the lightest tire in 225/45 (rival S) on a 9" S2, it weighs 33 lbs per corner, for a weight penalty of 20 lbs.

I have DZ102s on my car currently. Problem is these are the first tires I've had on this car so I cant really compare them against anything. I will say though that there have been several times i wish i had a stickier tire (autocross mainly). They just don't feel all that planted to me when pushing it and seem to slip/get loose quickly (could also have something to do with poor driver input). But again, I don't have much experience to go on.

This summer I would like to try more performance oriented tires as this is my fun car and not a DD. All that said, as mentioned previously, they are only like $65 a pop so it wouldn't be the end of the world if you didn't like them.

I've got RE71 225/50/15's on my 2003 Miata, making 215 rear wheel torque and 237 RWHP. These tires can handle the power far better than my DZ102's I had. The DZ102's spun in first and second at about any RPM. The RE71's rarely spin at all. DZ102's had 460 treadwear. The RE1's have 200 treadwear.

I'm sure the op already bought rims and tires, but 205/50/15 RE-71R on 15x8 6UL

Fantastic in rain. Best street tire and rim combo for responsiveness and grip, fact. IIRC for anything up to 250whp, except autocross.

Dz102 vs the ZII is worth ~6 seconds at our local track. Can't compare the 102 to re71s.

Spent my winter funny money going VVT/MSPNP pro. Looking at star spec II's for their balance of cost weight & grip unless the '17 season has a new surprise. Still debating between 8 & 9. Street use only. Going with advanti S2 bronze because vanity/poverty reasons.

I'd just do 8 for street. Little more tossable, usually cheaper, easily fits 205, can fit 225 if needed.

"Fantastic in the rain"...up to a point. Cannot channel deep water at high speed like a Conti DW or Michelin PSS.

Further, the RE71R compound will not work when its below about 50 degrees ambient and wet. In the dry, you can generate enough heat to make it work, but with constant water cooling the tire, it's "glass tabletop" lack of grip.

Several cars (including me) ran the Stones at One Lap last year and the first couple of events were 40's and wet...grip was awful. The PSS-shod cars destroyed us. The one wet event where it was about 70 ambient...no problem. And when it dried out later in the week, we kicked ass on the Stones.

But...the new schnizzle for the Miata world in "triple-threat" tire is this: http://www.continentaltire.com/produ...J8P8HAQ"=

I have been testing them on my ND vs the PSS for GRM, and they are very similar. Track, autocross, and street...does it all quite well. But the big news is the Sport will come in a 205/50-15 and 205/45-16..both 23" tall. I used to run the DW in that 16" size on my 92 Miata and it was epic...until they discontinued it. Now, you have two options for early Miata.

The best part is that these tires fill in the blanks around the RE71R. They will channel the deepest water at high speed, have excellent braking and dry/wet handling. Not as fast as RE71R in the dry, but better almost everywhere else. And way less noise on the street.

Truly a game-changer for NA/NB Miatas that are driven on the street. 205/50-15 on 15x8...or 205/45-16 on 16x8.

"One tire to rule them all". You heard it here first. :)

That's what I'm talkin about! I bought a subscription to GRM this year just to keep a finger on this pulse. Kinda cool to get the news straight from the horse's mouth. Looking forward to the full read.

Update => Just got from the track where we did wet testing today. Overnight light rain with fog in the am lent for fairly consistent "damp" testing. Results between PSS and Conti Sport were much more magnified in this condition. It was in the direction I expected, as suggested by the relative dry handling characteristics, but way more significant in magnitude.

Conti hit it outta the park with this one.

Even tier 2 UHP's like the VR-1 are a bit sketchy in the rain sub 50 degrees. Exact conditions we had yesterday, which combined with Austin's gripless asphalt had me spinning up in second gear as if I actually have horsepower (I don't).

So you are saying the Conti is a really good "all season" tire? Obviously not like a snow tire, but good for all 4 mild seasons?

How is sidewall stiffness?

What is the significance of the 23inch tire?

How does the dry grip compare to, say, the VR-1?

Thank you for your knowledge and willingness to share.

You are now getting into too much of what the GRM story will reveal, so I'll stay mum on that for now.

The 23" tall tire thing is because up until now, the best of the Max Performance Street Tire category (PSS and DW) were not available in a 23" tall tire...which is what an NA/NB Miata needs to fit in the fenderwells. Anything taller and it hits the top of the inner fender at typically lowered ride heights.

Oh ok, that makes sense.

I get the magazine, so I'll just see it there.

Thank you

OK, I just bought a set of the Conti extreme contact sports in 205/50 on a set of 15x8's. Thanks all for the input.

Thanks to Andy Hollis, I will be getting some 205/50/15's in the Conti Extreme Sports too.

Will be my next tire for the BRZ as well. The Star Specs are almost dead and I'm tired of the roar from Extreme Performance Summer tires when I've been to lazy to track or autox the car.

Thanks for the recommendation Andy. I'll be giving these a try at Homestead in a couple weeks and will report back.

Just got a call from tire rack. They won't mount a 205/50 tire on an 8" wheel. Probably common knowledge, but thought I'd pass it along. Factor in mounting & balancing cost into your budget if you go that route.

While I can't speak to what they do if you order a wheel tire combo from them, it is highly dependent on who mounts the tires for you. When I went to Tire Rack in South Bend to get some 225's mounted on a 15X9, the kid doing the work was a drifter with an S14, and would have done whatever I wanted because he thought by car & wheels/tires were cool, and he has a dumb hobby. Supposedly the 225 on a 9 inch wheel is outside their guidelines. I also thought you could convince them they were track wheels only?

SOP for TR is to only mount on wheels that fit the manufacturer's recs...which are industry standard per tire size, not per tire model. This avoids liability/warranty issues.

Just talked to one of my contacts at TR...here's the secret handshake:

I send all of my sales through Luke and Rudy. Both great guys...and Luke is a racer himself.

Good to know. I missed the boat on this order, but I'll remember it for next time. The guy did knock $20 off my shipping for the trouble.

Going the other direction in tire width, do you guys think the Contis would work well on a 6" wheel? Normally I'd get 195s and move on with life, but if the Contis prove to be as good as what some are suggesting, I wonder if it might be worth it to go a bit noodlier to have a better street tire. I'm not in the mood to spend the moneys on wider wheels at this time, especially since I haven't hit the track in a couple of seasons now.

Ironic that this "bad idea" would be completely within tire shops' recommendations, while a 205 on an 8" isn't.

Define "worth it"

...and a more specific comparison.

In my case I'm comparing to the BFG Comp2, which is available in 195, and near as I can tell is one of the better choices for a daily tire that still satisfies for spirited driving - back roads and the occasional light lapping session. By "worth it," I wonder if any additional grip (both wet and dry), longevity (both mileage and age), and bump compliance in the Contis would offset any loss in response resulting from going to a 205 tire on a 6" wheel.

I've been happy with the Comp 2, with dry grip being sufficient for my driving level and spring stiffness (318/233). The biggest problem is that they've flat-spotted from sitting despite keeping them at pressure, a hazard that I understand comes with UHPs. Things that would sell me on the Contis compared to getting another set of Comp2s: better wet grip especially in the cold, better road manners (quieter, more comfortable), and if there's more dry grip and/or more predictability near the limit, those would be selling points, too.

No doubt a new set of 205 Conti Sports will offer better wet and dry performance than your old set of Comp2's. :)

As for new vs new, in your situation I would not let the larger size affect the decision. While not optimal, a 6" rim is well within the manufacturer's rec rim range of the 205. The only other factor to consider is the OD of the tire will affect gearing/speedo a little bit.

I currently have the Sport Comp 2s on my car. I had them on 15x7" wheels, and then I swapped them onto my current 15x8" FFDs about 6-12 months later. They're about 3-3.5 years old now, and they're getting very loud. lol
As a DD tire, they've been great. Lots of grip wet and dry. Very forgiving when you break them loose. The BFGs also run a bit wide, so you're probably not looking at too much of a difference between their 195 and another manufacturer's 205.
But I will definitely be getting the Continentals in a 205/50 as my next daily tire. You can rotate them all around, instead of front to back, they should be quieter than the Comp2s, and the 205/50 size is closer to the factory overall wheel diameter. I also like the fact that I won't feel like I'm wasting as much money on a set of 200 treadwear tires, heat cycling all of the grip out of them on my daily commute before I can even get to a track day, and having to replace them in a year.

I got my wheels and tires today. Every one of the wheels has paint loss on either the inside/outside or both lips. It looks like it was caused by vibration against the styrofoam packaging. I've never had to return anything to Tire Rack. Hopefully this goes smoothly.

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...42e756ed59.jpg

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...d2943975e6.jpg

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...dda473f0ee.jpg

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...fdd7b12606.jpg

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...4799fe1ed1.jpg

Tire rack already shipped replacements! That was a quick response.