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Tire Dry Grip Hierarchy

 
Old 06-28-2016, 08:58 PM
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Default Tire Dry Grip Hierarchy

Starting a new thread that everyone can update. Just click the "report post" button and paste your post # in the report. Mods will update the OP after reviewing your submission. Tires
will be ranked in the OP by dry grip
, or wet grip in the case of wet specific tires

You:
1. Tire brand and model in title of post (so's we can find it)
2. Must either have a direct comparison between at least two tires in as close to equal conditions and equal cars or DO NOT POST. If you have never had any other tire on your miata, nor driven any other miata equally prepped, your opinion is invalid.
3. If comparing or listing track performance, include tire size, wheel width & offset, year of chassis, weather, track name and config, basic car details (weight/hp/class) lap time and anything else you feel might be relevant
4. As much as possible, include only unambiguous information
Example: "I just mounted up some 193/82/15 Star Force 1000's and they feel pretty good, possibly better than Hoosiers. But I have never actually ran Hoosiers so that's a guess" = useless info
Example: "I just mounted up a set of 193/82/15 Star Force 2000's. They turn in noticeably sharper than the Megatron 500's I just took off, although they are quite a bit noisier on the road. Went about 1s faster at local track with no other changes" = useful info
5. Only data from 89- current Mazda MX5 is applicable. We don't care how they make your Subaru handle.
6. Ratings1-5, (1 worst, 3 average, 5 best, N/A unknown)
  • Dry Grip
  • Heat resistance
  • Cycle life
  • Wet Grip
  • Steering feel and precision
  • Noise
  • Tread Life
  • Cost
7. Pics of tread post thrashing welcome
8. Do it something like this:

"Hey ya'll. Just ran the 205/50/15 stupidgrip 590's on 15x8 +36' wheels at our local go jart track where I have the lap record for Volvo engine swapped Miatas. Same size as the Yokohama AD08's I ran before. 200whp, 2200#. Hot weather as usual. Was consistently 1.5s faster although they felt like they got greasy sooner than the AD08's would. Can't tell on wear yet. Cost about $40 less per tire."

Stupidgrip 590 205/50/15 on 15x8 +36, 91 Miata, 200whp, 2200#

4-Dry Grip
3- Heat resistance
N/A-Cycle life
N/A-Wet Grip
4- Steering feel and precision
2- Noise
N/A -Tread Life
4- Cost


Mods:
Sticky?
Copy over the latest list from https://www.miataturbo.net/race-prep...hy-chat-76811/ maybe?
Feel free to edit the crap out of the content in the reports so the master list here remains clean
Feel free to delete my post if you think it's redundant
Maybe separate the instructions from the actual rankings list in separate posts so it's easier to read?

Street 220tw and above - Category 1
Continental Extreme Contact DW


Street 200tw - Category 2
Bridgestone RE71-R
BFG Rival-S
Kumho V720
Toyo R1R (195/50)
Hankook Ventus R-S3 V2
BFG Rival
Hankook Ventus R-S3
Dunlop Direzza ZII
Toyo R1R (all other sizes)
Dunlop Direzza Star Specs Z1
Falken Azenis RT-615

Race DOT (30-180tw) - Category 3
Hoosier A7 40tw
BFG R1-S 40tw
Hankook Z214 C91 40tw
Hoosier R7 40tw
BFG R1 40tw
Hankook Z221 Ventus TD Soft (C91) 60tw
​Hankook Z214 C71 40wt
Toyo RR 40tw
Maxxis RC-1 100tw
Nitto NT01 100tw
Yokohama AD08R 180tw
Hankook Z214 C51 40tw
Toyo R888 100tw
Toyo RA1 100tw
Hankook Z214 C31 40tw

Race non DOT - Category 4
Hoosier R75
Hoosier R80
Hoosier R100

Wet Specific DOT and non DOT
Continental Grand Am Wet
Hoosier H2O (DOT Race)
BFG KDW-R (DOT Race)

Thanks to Dunning Kruger for getting the ball rolling
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Last edited by emilio700; 06-28-2016 at 10:33 PM.
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Old 06-28-2016, 10:19 PM
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Typo, AD08R should be 180 tw
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Old 06-29-2016, 01:39 PM
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I wonder if a Google Forms driving a Google Sheets doc might be the way to go. I'm trying to think of a scoring rubric on the back-end that can do the appropriate weighting, but coming up a bit short. It can be gamed and should be taken with a grain of salt (by having a GRM/Tirerack/whatever shootout be the counter argument), but it's kind of interesting to think about how to systematically figure out what's a good tire based on user input.

Have all of the categories such as feel, noise, wet/dry grip, etc, but then have a user math section. Enter in your car's information (power, torque, weight) and how many seconds over/under Spec Miata at your [favorite] local track; maybe throw in experience level, too. Hmmmm....

Thanks for picking up where I left off (2 years ago), Emilio.
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Old 06-29-2016, 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Dunning Kruger Affect View Post
I wonder if a Google Forms driving a Google Sheets doc might be the way to go. I'm trying to think of a scoring rubric on the back-end that can do the appropriate weighting, but coming up a bit short. It can be gamed and should be taken with a grain of salt (by having a GRM/Tirerack/whatever shootout be the counter argument), but it's kind of interesting to think about how to systematically figure out what's a good tire based on user input.

Have all of the categories such as feel, noise, wet/dry grip, etc, but then have a user math section. Enter in your car's information (power, torque, weight) and how many seconds over/under Spec Miata at your [favorite] local track; maybe throw in experience level, too. Hmmmm....

Thanks for picking up where I left off (2 years ago), Emilio.
I like the idea of a database so the user can choose what parameters to weight ratimng or filter by. Google docs does make sense but then someone offline has to manage it. Frankly, I'm too busy. Just saw that your good work was getting obfuscated by all the spurious data coming in. Then there are the daily "hai gays, wut tire should I run!!??". I'd like to the that the mt.net community can go beyond the typical thread and produce something a bit more relevant and useful. Thus a sort of self managed OP that keeps getting edited updated. But the database approach is far more versatile.
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Old 06-30-2016, 10:55 AM
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I bounced the idea off of a few friends that have had formal classwork on algorithms and spent half the day doing a wiki wormhole of decision analysis, value focused thinking, multiple objective decision making, etc. The idea that I have should take some effort up front, but then normalize after once all of the balancing/weighting has been figured out and should only require pruning for people trying to cheese the system.

I'm fairly steadfast in keeping Spec Miata the baseline, and working from there. If you're a hotshoe (10 out of 10 Emilios) driver skill wise, driving a 300whp turbo car on Linglongs, and post a time 2 seconds faster than the Spec Miata record, the result should still filter towards the bottom (whereas same car/driver on R7s goes 10 seconds faster than SM should filter the R7s upwards). It's all fuzzy logic stuff that will take some time to tune, but I think I'm going to pursue it despite the biggest factor being self-reported driver skill (we're all above average drivers here, right?). Power-to-weight is definitely the secondary criteria seeing how many Corvettes I had passed going up through HPDEs, but it still should be a factor.

Another thing is that it could be easier to make sustainable. I created the other thread in 2014, and in the 2 years since, the 200TW has been shaken up with the RE71R and Rival S. As new tires come out and people put in data, it could be possible to put a fuzzy number with some precision on how it performs in terms of lap times (It's faster than X, slower than Y) versus doing the manual daisy-chaining of "Well it's faster than an NT-01 which is slower than a Toyo RR; however, the original Rival isn't available any more so it's hard to tell if it's about 1.5 seconds a lap faster than the baseline on a 2 minute course". Punch in the details, "I went slightly faster than a Spec Miata on a street tire in a PTE-esque car", have the system spit out "this should be faster than X tire on average".

I have a few more brains to pick through, but that's my take on it. Push comes to shove, it's a complete disaster and it doesn't work, but now I know a bunch of fuzzy logic algorithms. Win-win for me. :v
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Old 06-30-2016, 01:08 PM
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Loved the previous tire thread by Dunning Kruger Affect. As with all things it needed some improvements. If the respondents stay true to the templates and headings the results will be easily searchable within this thread. No need to maintain a separate database etc.

"Race non DOT - Category 4"
"Hoosier R80"

With this I can search for all category 4 or Hoosier R80 results. Having mods underneath the actual results would help keep clutter down since all results begin the same and additional variables will follow.

What is missing from the template are tire temps. Not sure everyone takes em but that piece of info will help us understand if the tire is working in the proper temp range. Having someone say xxx tire sucks then finding out it's too cold or too hot will help filter through the garbage. It will also help us to identify optimum temps for each tire. Suppose someone posts poor result with xxx tire but it's too hot. At that point I would suggest jumping up a size. On the other hand many of the 275's R7's run too cold for the HP/weight of the car. A 275 A7 would be a better choice in that application or a 245 R7 compound.

Lastly props to both of you for your efforts!

Last edited by k24madness; 06-30-2016 at 05:22 PM.
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Old 07-10-2016, 05:13 PM
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Is that list in order of grip? Is the Hoosier R75 the grippiest tire I can possibly buy? I'm looking for the highest grip possible that will last 8 20 minute sessions. Not interested in any other characteristic other than maximum grip.

Miata will be 2800 pounds with driver, 260whp rotrex. Xidas. 3000 with instructor, I don't think I'll have any issues bringing tires up to temp.
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