Toyo's new Proxes RR
 

Toyo is releasing a new Proxes "RR" which is reportedly going to be NASA's Spec Miata tire for the 2013 season. It is going to be available in:
205/50ZR15 (awwww how cute).
225/50ZR15 (too bad it is not a 45).
275/35ZR18 (not that it matters to us).

From Toyo
Proxes RR | Toyo Tires

Discuss...

Will it work on my daily?

I keed I keed

No 225, no care.

Where is my Maxxis tire?

Seems like a lot of new tires have been promised but nothing is happening.

I really wish SM would quit changing the spec tire. Fingers crossed these are better than the R888

Major :fael:

Whycome no 225/45?

I'm sticking with NT-01 until a tire comes out that's cost effective and make similar or better grip. I think the NT-01 will be around for a while.

It should have more grip than a NT-01 but will not wear as long. It looks like it is going to fit into the Z214 category. The hype is more grip and better wear than a R888, and longer life than a Z214 but that all remains to be seen.

Ahem...

While it's not the news we hoped for it is still good news. I spoke to guys who beta tested the tire and loved it. I heard Hoosier R6 grip with RA1 heat cycles.

Toyo will continue to roll out more sizes in the upcoming months. If all goes well the 225/45/15 & 245/40/15 are up next.

If it wears well, this could be really cool. I have enough room in the NASA TTC point structure to run this tire and aero while in TTC.

Excellent. That is consistent with what I have read.

I was hoping for this, and would expect more sizes later given the limited choices. Where did you hear about the 245? This tire, in a 245, would be fantastico for my car in the NASA class I am running in.

I'm about ready to give up waiting for a 245 with the right diameter and mount 225 nt01s on 15x10s. The hoosier 245/580r15 slicks are amazing, but the track budget doesn't support blowing $1200 on tires every few days.

Point to ponder:

Didn't Emilio just Crusher the competition and set a new lap record at Mid-Ohio on Hoosier A6's in 205/50-15? Since that's the Spec Miata tire (well, R6), you can obtain them for $166 each.

Cute? Yes.
Cost effective? If you like winning.

I don't have wheels for that shit. I want long-wear too.

No solid word. Toyo has been amazingly tight lipped even with guys that have pull and inside connections.

The best intel I got is that Toyo plans to make a race tire in a 205/225/245 15" configuration. I thought at first it would be the RS1 slick. Looks more like it will be this RR. It makes sense to release the sizes they did and wait for some more feedback before jumping both feet in. The R888's were not well received so they are likely more timid this time around.

Point to ponder (for me)... Crusher has about 50% of the RWHP I do. For others running lower power motors, yes, it would make sense.

Just get A6 and then complain that all sessions should be 3-laps long.

I asked Carl(Toyo UHP and Racing Tire Sales Manager for the S.E. US) today if there were plans for a 225 or 245 width 15" application of either the RR or Rs1 and he denied it. So either they are being extremely tight lipped or may not actually go through with it. Maybe Nitto will have a new generation of tires on the way.

Every 3rd Miata at any race in the country is running on 225/45/15. I don't see why anyone would not introduce this size.

I'm anxious to see some legitimate data... I've had guys telling me it's testing no faster than a fresh shaved RA1.

Everything I've read/heard has led me to believe that NASA had quite a bit to do with the development of this tire, so it makes perfect sense that those 3 sizes were the first to be released.

205/50ZR15- Spec size for spec miata
225/50ZR15- Spec size for Spec E30/Spec 944
275/35ZR18- Max allowed for American Iron

If it ends up actually being a hoosier competitor I'd expect they'll eventually roll out more sizes, but if it's the same speed as an RA1 I wouldn't be surprised if they don't do much past these 3 sizes. The RA1 is still the spec rain tire for SM so it isn't going out of production soon... they've already got molds for it in all the current sizes and it's a better all-purpose tire that should appeal to a broader customer base than the RR.

Right now only a 205/50R15 and a 225/50R15 Toyo RR. (A 275/35R18 too, if you can make it fit).

It's a great tire with close to or right at Hoosier R6 lap times, with more consistency and durability. Less $$ too........

Toyo needs to step up their contingency game. I'm all for cheaper, longer-lasting tires, but I won 4 Hoosiers last weekend.

And that is a wonderful thing .....

Toyo's contingency pays a little further out the more cars that are in the class...

Not bad just different!

Spoke to the Toyo rep at the 25hr. He said the 225/45/15 should be coming by the end of 2013. The bad news is the 245/40/15 will be the last size made. He estimates 2014/2015. The good news is they are looking at doing a 275/35/15 size.

Part of the reason is business. 205/50/15 is the SM size and that is the one they will sell the most of by far. So of course they are going to make a tool/mold for that. Making a 225/50/15 is easy because (generally) all they have to do is add a 20mm spacer in the mold. So one tool, two tire sizes.

225/45/15 (generally) requires a whole other tool, and therefor the investment to make a 205/50 and a 225/45 is much, much higher.

This is my very basic understanding from speaking with tire engineers, and this is my guess as to why the 225/50/15 size is made by more than one manufacturer, and not the 225/45

Huh? The 225/50 is not only 20mm wider, but ~1" taller as well. I sincerely doubt it's the same mold with a 20mm spacer.

Nitto, Hoosier, Hankook, and Toyo all make a 225/45. Not just one manufacturer.

I'm just passing on my convoluted understanding of what I was told by some tire engineers when I asked them why they made a 205/50/15 and a 225/50/15 but not a 225/45/15.

Do Nitto, Hankook and Toyo make R6/R1 competitors in 225/45/15 sizes? I was only thinking of DOT slicks. Maybe Hankook does but I don't really see that many people running Hankooks anymore...

Newsflash:
205 x .5 = 102.5
225 x .45 = 101.25

If Toyo decided to use a 20mm spacer, and change nothing else, the 205/50/15 and 225/???/15 will have the same height sidewall and same roll-out. If the suggested "spacer" shit is true, we can run the 225/50/15 tire. Someone should grab the two sizes and compare.

225s offered in a Toyo RA1, Nitto NT-01, Hankook RS3 and Z214 C51/C71, Hoosier A6/R6. The C51/71 is closest to an R6, but ultimately not as good (the C71s cliff very badly like a real Hoosier road race slick).

Are u saying 102.5=101.25mm???

It's 1" height difference.
(225/25.4)x0.5x2+15=~23.9"
(225/25.4)x0.45x2+15=~23"

Efini says the 205/50/15 and 225/50/15 molds are the same, but one has a spacer. If that were true, then regardless of what is written on the tire, it will fit our cars because the 225/50/15 will not be the true size.

Again, I know almost nothing about tire manufacturing.

Maybe, I'm mis-remembering the conversation. Maybe it was that they might be able to make a 225/45/15 with the 205/50 mold by just adding a 20mm spacer, that might make more sense, since the overall heights are much closer.

Anyway, back the point of all of this: The business case of 225/45/15 r-compounds isn't as good as the 205/50 and 225/50 and that is why there aren't as many tires available in that size.

So the answer is...no.

Only real DOT R slicks available are Hoosier and Hankook, and again not many C51s and C71s sold anymore.

I hope they keep the price fair. These are promising!

Frisby Performance Tire & Sierra Tire
<b>....TOYO TIRES: ((NEW)) >>> RR (semi-slick dot), RS-1 (full slick non-dot), R-888, RA-1 and R1R DOT grooved great on the street, plus the D.O.T. Proxes T.Q. DRAG tires

Emilio, can you comment on where you rank this tire compared to RS3, NT01, R6, A6? You ran these at the 25hr correct?

Not as simple as a single digit ranking. Degradation curve, number of heat cycles, steering response, sensitivity to heat, price and of course lap times. In short they are pretty fast, seem to last a long time and are not too expensive. Somewhere between an NT01and an R6 in terms of speed.

How many heat cycles are most people seeing out of these tires? I run 205 hoosier R6 for NASA events, but my track day setup for the last year or two has been 205 NT01s on 14" E30 weaves. Cheap and plenty fun, but I always waste a few sessions of a NASA weekend getting back up to speed with the Hoosier, or just end up not using the tire to it's full potential. I want to switch to something that's closer to 205 R6 grip for practice but with good enough life to not break the bank. Currently debating between the 205 RR or a 15" 205 or 225 NT01.

RR is usually about 1.5s faster than the same size NT01. Usually just under 1s slower than an R6. We find the RR to still be fast enough way out to 10+ cycles. Much like the RA1 in that respect.

It sucks that NASA PT rules favor the softest compounds so much. A 205 RR is nearly a full second quicker than a 225 NT01 and 2 points less. The R6 is only 1 more point and as I mentioned earlier almost a full second faster yet.

I wish there was a bigger points gap between compounds so we could competitively run cheaper, longer lasting tires. Not gonna happen though so yeah, I'm on SM6's or A6's when it matters just like everyone else at the front. :cry:

Good to know. I'll probably give the RR a try in the next month or two. I'm with you on the tire compound stuff. Pretty much have to have the sticky stuff for Putnam park, my home track. Mid-ohio has some long straights that like high hp, though... I'm pretty tempted to try one of the new street tires there along with an extra star of pwr on my reclass. The baby 185 Hoosiers I ran at nats last year were tough to drive fast with the big fat sidewalls, but they weren't slow...

Curious what you've found once the RR falls off; does it slow to NT01 speeds and remain drivable or does it just suck?

Agreed on the NASA tire rules. I was shocked, really, when I looked at what it would cost in points to move from NT01s to Hoosiers. It's a no-brainer except for the monetary cost of the tires.

robert

Even if the 205 RR is quicker than a 225 NT01 or RA1 despite being cheaper, lighter, and longer-wearing?

has anyone given any thought to running this tire in an autox setting? I liked my NT-01s in autox last year. they were shockingly close to the cobras on hoosiers for raw time.

I would happily pick up a set of these if they have similar autox characteristics to the NT-01

And knowing the 225/45 RR will likely be released Q4/Q1 2014?

Hustlepoo's butthurt because he can't put 205/50 RRs on his bicycle. :dealwithit: