Yet another which 225/45/15 tire thread
 

These will be for 15x9's. So what's the darling combo track/street tire these days? My list of priorities are:

1) Good life on the track, won't chunk when new
2) Good resistance to overheating on the track, won't get greasy
3) Fun predictable talkative handling, won't suddenly let go
4) Won't kill me if I hit a puddle
5) Wear longer than RA1's on the street
6) Less expensive than RA1's
7) Ride better than RA1's on the street

RS3 v2

what he said

+1

BFG Rival S. It's a street tire so it should last a long time.






(trolling)

RS3 is out of stock, IIRC. Maybe the Toyo R1R

Coolio.
How are the RS3 v2's in the predictability/communicativeness department?

Once you have met your other criteria, does it matter?

Yes because if they suck big time I may split track and street into 2 separate sets.

I've had a set of regular Rivals for that. 225's on 9's. They've worked well. They squeal on track before breaking away. I would think they'd last longer on the street than the Rival S or R1R. I had RS3 (v1) before that. They were fine, probably a better AutoX tire when it's hot than the Rival.
RS3's aren't always available. I had some issues getting a single Rival to replace one I flat spotted too. The 225 Rival is not quite as wide as the 225 RS3.

My only complaint about my RS3v2's is that they don't make much noise. My old Rivals were a lot noisier.

That's probably just me driving like a bitch though...

To me the slip angle buildup is more important for "communication" than the noise/squeal.
Less noise is good for hooning around on the street! :)

How're the RS3v2's in the slip angle buildup department?

The RS3s are fun and predictable with no nasty breakaway characteristics, just like your original criteria requested. The Rival is slightly better under braking and the larger tread blocks improve communication at the limit, but they are not going to be as good in the rain.

.. and substantially cheaper, right?

Looks like RS3v2's are it.

Thanks all.

If you want I've got 6 mostly new 140TW RS3s, stored in doors since they were new, made the last year that 140TW RS3s were a thing. These are the ones that last forever (probably should be makred 400TW) because they get literally no wear driving on the street. I have spun the car in the rain on an onramp on them before getting a little too aggressive with that huge stock 1.8 power, but as long as you're not trying to drive hard in the wet they have amazing hydroplaning resistance. Just make literally no grip when they're cold, worse than slicks. I could be convinced to removed them off my 15x9 6uls and ship them.

+1 RS3. They were surprisingly good in the rain. They work great when warm. Terrible when cold. Sidewalls are a little soft; a good compromise street & HPDE tire.

For customers that are just driving the car on the street, the Rival S is what I've been suggesting. If you approach it from the standpoint of someone whose car is 100% street driven, the Rival S is the perfect street tire: quiet, relatively long-wearing, competent in the rain, and unbelievably sticky. If you need to make the tire work on track, then the Rival is what you want, but for street-only toys, the Rival S is the unobtanium of street tires.

As always, "street use" can mean many things. You can drive most race tires gently to/from work for a rather stunning amount of mileage without wearing through them. I don't have direct experience with the Rival S, but have heard that it is very similar in characteristics to the RE71R - which I do have direct experience with, and while freeway driving doesn't wear the tire prematurely, as soon as you take it to any sort of performance driving event you're scrubbing rubber off at about the same rate as a Hoosier. I stopped hooning on the street years ago, but many people's versions of spirited driving on backroads could warm the tire enough to get it sticky and dramatically shave lifespan down.

This is, again, based on my experience with the RE71R. We're looking forward to using the Rival S this coming season for a Street class time attack build. If it has significantly different wear characteristics than the RE71R, that's a pleasant surprise for me.

Side-note: AFAIK the non-S Rival is no longer available in NA/NB-relevant sizes?

Available in 205, but I haven't seen any new 225s since the S came out. Bummer because I have 2 225 Rivals at about 60% that need companions.

I've been using a set of RS3V2s this year as rain tires and have been happy with them. They need quite a bit of pressure to avoid chunking when temperatures get warm, so keep an eye on that. I find them a fun, predictable tire at the track.

Rival cycled out over 1 second @80 sec./lap at about half life. Rs3 v1andv2 did not. Lap time about 3 tenths gap between all v1 slowest and v2 fastest. About 15 days life for all. V2 better on everything except 20 minutes plus stints, it does fade a bit. The hankook is an excellent choice.

This is by far your best option. Get slicks for track - Maxxis RC1, Toyo RR, Hoosiers, whatever - they will all be much better on track than any street tire.

You can then get street tires that won't put you at risk of snap oversteering in the cold and wet.

RS3 v2 are the ticket. They work much better in cooler temperatures compared to the old V1s, I liked them in the rain too. Pretty communicative on a 9" wheel, they do squeal at the limit.

The Rival has bigger slip angles. In autocross it requires more steering input to get them to their limit. They will squeal loudly on most surfaces when warmed up but that doesn't mean they're at the limit yet they still have like 5-10% to go so you have to push them past that point if you want to get everything out of them. Coming from RS3 v1s to the Rivals took me a couple days to get used them since in my brain it was embedded that if the tires are squealing they're at the limit, when in reality they required more. RS3s are better to learn on IMO. In the end it depends on your driving style, if you over drive the car and are rough with steering inputs the Rivals might be a better choice. I liked the RS3 v2s better.

If "better" is only "faster lap times", that's not important to me. Sticky street tires would be plenty fast for me.

Are these v2's?

If so your post makes it sound like there's a v2.0 and a v2.1. What gives?

140tw RS3 are from a few years ago before they relabeled them as 200tw.

These are not slicks, but DOT tires. There is a difference.....

Don't buy 2 year old tires from Leafy.

No they're the same as the 200TW V1's except they say 140TW on the side.

RC1's will be somewhat faster. But more importantly they won't get greasy like a treaded street tire. They will be consistent throughout sessions, you won't have to worry about overheating them unless you are being an absolute hooligan, and your on-track tire life will be better with the RC1s. Your street tires won't be worn down to nubs and/or suffer overheating. It's a win for both sets of tires. There is also the bonus that should you suffer a flat at the track, you still have tires to drive home on. If it is a wet track day, track on the street tires. It's all win.

Yes, ok, sorry. DOT r-compound semi-slicks.

The RC-1 is a great HPDE tire, but it will definitely get greasy in hot weather if you're mean to it. That characteristic also makes it interesting to race on, since any race in weather hotter than 85*F turns into a tire management battle. I think that both the Rival and the RS3 handle heat better than the RC-1, but the RC-1 is an easier tire to drive on the limit and may last longer on track as well.

What about the Toyo RR for track use?

The RR is awesome, but not really a dual-purpose tire. :)

--Ian

The RR is awesome. Its only drawback is that it's directional. Tread splices can occur if you run them consistently the wrong way. On a rwd car you have to rotate them diagonally. So on my car I ran the lf/rr pair to the cords while the rf/lr pair still had a day or two in them.

If I run them again I will probably rotate them a few times the "wrong" way to even out the wear.

I did two autocrosses on that set as well. Had FTD at one of them.
Iirc it was 5-6/full track days plus the autocrosses.

I got 6 track days on my RRs, just corded one on Friday. Interestingly, it was the same LF/RR pair that wore the most (corded LF), even though I ran them at Laguna and Thunderhill which are both counter-clockwise tracks. I would have expected RF to be the most-worn tire.

--Ian

The RC-1 isn't a dual purpose tire either. The NT01 is barely a dual purpose tire. The RA1 is more of a dual purpose tire as long as it isn't driven in freezing conditions.

If budget allows, 2 sets of tires is optimal.

Fixed that for you..

Damn. OK.

The point is, regardless of lap time improvement, once you experience the joy of sticky tires suited to the task at hand, you don't want to go back.

Just tried a set of 225 RS3v2 a couple weeks ago. Very impressed. They're the worst tire I've ever driven on when cold and took almost 2 full laps to come up to temp. They were so bad that I even managed to spin the car on the out lap sunday morning. Once warm they were awesome though. I was driving my 99 that's all stock except for XIDAs and 225 RS3s on 9s, and I was only half a second off the SM record. (1:22.3 vs. 1.21.8)

/thread

I agree!

Phil, can you explain how a tire without any tread can be a directional tire?

Toyo recommends specific rotational directions depending on location of drive axles. No arrows on side wall, just DOT code on inside or outside depending on where it's located on the car. BFG doesn't do this with the Rival officially but there have been internet reports (decide for yourself) of some splice issues on heavier, higher HP cars.

Cap plies are laid on like a roll of paper. There is an overlap somewhere. That overlap gets pulled apart and the tread tears. Looks like someone took an exacto blade and cut slits laterally across the tire. Worst case, the tread comes off in a big flap. I head that is a bad thing.

Tire Rack tech thingy http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tirete...jsp?techid=160

Toyo RR

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...f769a5358.jpg?

Rival
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/attac...1&d=1387660939

BFG R1
http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforum...re-bfg-r1.jpg?

I think one of my Rivals has done it. They're just street tires, so I've mostly ignored it, although perhaps that's not the best idea...

Any idea if the Toyo instructions apply to the BFGs? Are the date codes on the same side relative to the ply overlap?

--Ian

Are you kidding? The RS3V2 are great in the cold. They're nowhere near the RE71R but they worlds better than RS3V1s, original rivals, or R6s.

I've read that tread splices are more of a cosmetic issue than a safety issue. Now if they go all the way down to the nylon cap then it's probably a safety issue.

You read wrong

Mine are terrible cold -- very easy to spin the car until they get some temp. Worse than R6 IMO, more like R6 in the rain.

These splices are called butt splices. They are on a 45 degree angle in most cases. The braking forces are what cause the apparent "slice" not the acceleration forces. That and the casing design are what determines in what configuration the tire should be mounted on a particular vehicle.

That is interesting, as BFG specifically says the R1 are non-directional and can be mounted in either orientation.

That is true - BFG R1 and R1S can be mounted either side out. Keyword was "most cases".

Toyo's bulletin on the RR dictates that the orientation of the tire be altered based on which wheels are driven. That strongly implies that the main issue is seen under acceleration, not braking.

https://nasa-assets.s3.amazonaws.com...unting_Rec.pdf

Looks like no one read the Tire Rack tech bulletin I linked. Read it. Helps splain splices.

For endurance WRL series we must use > 180 UTQC tires. Planning to upgrade to 15x9 rims after running 15x7's with original Rival the past two season in Chumps. For 225/45/15's the current Tire Rack 200 UTQC choices are Rival S, RS3 V2, and Toyo R1R. Interested in durability and good driving manners as we're still learning... Any advice on which 225/45/15 tires are a good fit for endurance racing?

If budget/economy is more important than results, RS3V2 or standard Rival

If you want to win and triple your tire budget in the process, Rival S

LOL, always choices to be made in racing, eh? ...and they usually involve more money!


Any experience with the Toyo R1R's in an endurance format?

Running WRL, we're not able to get the Rival S to last for a whole race. It's fast though. If your rules allow you to change tires during a driver change, Rival S. If you have to run one set the whole time, RS3V2.

WRL here too. I am hoping that we don't end up having to run the Rival-S and do a tire swap mid race to be able to keep up with. Fingers crossed that the new VR-1 is a healthy balance of wear and traction that will negate the time it takes to do a full change. Right now it isn't that way, but I have seen a rise in teams using them, only to then have to change the tires 5 hours in.

Great rain tire at full thread but I would go with the RS3V2s over those for longevity. If you overdrive the R1Rs they start wearing down very fast. Also the 225R1R was never regarded as a great tire, supposedly had a harder tread compound halfway through compared to the popular 195 which you could shave and still have the sticky stuff there.

The new generation of tires got a little ridiculous. The RS3V2s were a great balance. You could run a crapcan race the whole weekend on one set, on your street car you could autocross a whole season and throw some track days in there too.

Now you need 3-4 sets for a weekend of crapcan racing to win? 2 sets for a season of autocrossing?

Is anyone brave enough to drive your miata to the track on Toyo Ra1's? I dont necessarily want to buy two sets of wheels right now and was just wondering if i could manage driving the Ra1's in a little wet. I don't dd my miata so theyd just be for driving to the track on the track and then back.