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Old 11-17-2015, 04:20 PM   #41
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Phil, can you explain how a tire without any tread can be a directional tire?
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Old 11-17-2015, 05:18 PM   #42
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Phil, can you explain how a tire without any tread can be a directional tire?
Toyo recommends specific rotational directions depending on location of drive axles. No arrows on side wall, just DOT code on inside or outside depending on where it's located on the car. BFG doesn't do this with the Rival officially but there have been internet reports (decide for yourself) of some splice issues on heavier, higher HP cars.

Cap plies are laid on like a roll of paper. There is an overlap somewhere. That overlap gets pulled apart and the tread tears. Looks like someone took an exacto blade and cut slits laterally across the tire. Worst case, the tread comes off in a big flap. I head that is a bad thing.

Tire Rack tech thingy http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tirete...jsp?techid=160

Toyo RR



Rival


BFG R1
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Old 11-17-2015, 06:04 PM   #43
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No arrows on side wall, just DOT code on inside or outside depending on where it's located on the car. BFG doesn't do this with the Rival officially but there have been internet reports (decide for yourself) of some splice issues on heavier, higher HP cars.
I think one of my Rivals has done it. They're just street tires, so I've mostly ignored it, although perhaps that's not the best idea...

Any idea if the Toyo instructions apply to the BFGs? Are the date codes on the same side relative to the ply overlap?

--Ian
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Old 11-17-2015, 06:45 PM   #44
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Just tried a set of 225 RS3v2 a couple weeks ago. Very impressed. They're the worst tire I've ever driven on when cold and took almost 2 full laps to come up to temp. They were so bad that I even managed to spin the car on the out lap sunday morning. Once warm they were awesome though. I was driving my 99 that's all stock except for XIDAs and 225 RS3s on 9s, and I was only half a second off the SM record. (1:22.3 vs. 1.21.8)
Are you kidding? The RS3V2 are great in the cold. They're nowhere near the RE71R but they worlds better than RS3V1s, original rivals, or R6s.
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Old 11-17-2015, 07:31 PM   #45
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I've read that tread splices are more of a cosmetic issue than a safety issue. Now if they go all the way down to the nylon cap then it's probably a safety issue.
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Old 11-17-2015, 08:13 PM   #46
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I've read that tread splices are more of a cosmetic issue than a safety issue. Now if they go all the way down to the nylon cap then it's probably a safety issue.
You read wrong
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Old 11-17-2015, 08:33 PM   #47
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Are you kidding? The RS3V2 are great in the cold. They're nowhere near the RE71R but they worlds better than RS3V1s, original rivals, or R6s.
Mine are terrible cold -- very easy to spin the car until they get some temp. Worse than R6 IMO, more like R6 in the rain.
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Old 11-17-2015, 09:04 PM   #48
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I've read that tread splices are more of a cosmetic issue than a safety issue. Now if they go all the way down to the nylon cap then it's probably a safety issue.
These splices are called butt splices. They are on a 45 degree angle in most cases. The braking forces are what cause the apparent "slice" not the acceleration forces. That and the casing design are what determines in what configuration the tire should be mounted on a particular vehicle.
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Old 11-17-2015, 09:28 PM   #49
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BFG R1
That is interesting, as BFG specifically says the R1 are non-directional and can be mounted in either orientation.
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Old 11-17-2015, 09:33 PM   #50
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That is true - BFG R1 and R1S can be mounted either side out. Keyword was "most cases".
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Old 11-17-2015, 09:43 PM   #51
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Old 11-17-2015, 09:48 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by philstireservice View Post
The braking forces are what cause the apparent "slice" not the acceleration forces.
Toyo's bulletin on the RR dictates that the orientation of the tire be altered based on which wheels are driven. That strongly implies that the main issue is seen under acceleration, not braking.

https://nasa-assets.s3.amazonaws.com...unting_Rec.pdf
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Old 11-17-2015, 11:22 PM   #53
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Looks like no one read the Tire Rack tech bulletin I linked. Read it. Helps splain splices.
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Old 03-10-2016, 06:40 PM   #54
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For endurance WRL series we must use > 180 UTQC tires. Planning to upgrade to 15x9 rims after running 15x7's with original Rival the past two season in Chumps. For 225/45/15's the current Tire Rack 200 UTQC choices are Rival S, RS3 V2, and Toyo R1R. Interested in durability and good driving manners as we're still learning... Any advice on which 225/45/15 tires are a good fit for endurance racing?
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Old 03-10-2016, 06:47 PM   #55
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If budget/economy is more important than results, RS3V2 or standard Rival

If you want to win and triple your tire budget in the process, Rival S
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Old 03-10-2016, 06:52 PM   #56
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LOL, always choices to be made in racing, eh? ...and they usually involve more money!


Any experience with the Toyo R1R's in an endurance format?
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Old 03-10-2016, 07:32 PM   #57
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Running WRL, we're not able to get the Rival S to last for a whole race. It's fast though. If your rules allow you to change tires during a driver change, Rival S. If you have to run one set the whole time, RS3V2.
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Old 03-10-2016, 08:19 PM   #58
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WRL here too. I am hoping that we don't end up having to run the Rival-S and do a tire swap mid race to be able to keep up with. Fingers crossed that the new VR-1 is a healthy balance of wear and traction that will negate the time it takes to do a full change. Right now it isn't that way, but I have seen a rise in teams using them, only to then have to change the tires 5 hours in.
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Old 03-11-2016, 11:17 AM   #59
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Quote:
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LOL, always choices to be made in racing, eh? ...and they usually involve more money!


Any experience with the Toyo R1R's in an endurance format?
Great rain tire at full thread but I would go with the RS3V2s over those for longevity. If you overdrive the R1Rs they start wearing down very fast. Also the 225R1R was never regarded as a great tire, supposedly had a harder tread compound halfway through compared to the popular 195 which you could shave and still have the sticky stuff there.

The new generation of tires got a little ridiculous. The RS3V2s were a great balance. You could run a crapcan race the whole weekend on one set, on your street car you could autocross a whole season and throw some track days in there too.

Now you need 3-4 sets for a weekend of crapcan racing to win? 2 sets for a season of autocrossing?
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Old 03-17-2016, 10:05 AM   #60
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Is anyone brave enough to drive your miata to the track on Toyo Ra1's? I dont necessarily want to buy two sets of wheels right now and was just wondering if i could manage driving the Ra1's in a little wet. I don't dd my miata so theyd just be for driving to the track on the track and then back.
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