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I've heard of the 5 being stronger than the 6, but how specifically?
Originally Posted by astral
On the 6, Mitsubishi literally used the same trans case and just made the gears thinner so that they could smash an extra gear into the case. I believe 1-3 are the same, 4 is especially thin and 5-6 are thin.
Because of the extra gears the oiling is not up to par as well. Typically I believe the way to build a "strong" 6 speed is with adding new oil passages and generally strengthening the oiling system for a trans, adding an oil cooler, and an upgraded gear set.
Pretty lazy on Mitsubishi's part IMO. Could have been a great gearbox. The shifting is so much cleaner and smoother on the 6's than the 5's, the gearing is fantastic (5th is like 5th in the Miata... 3800-4000RPM on 80mph+ freeway driving. Terrible) and I just like having the extra gear.
With that said I am still debating of moving to a 5. Not sure if I want to do it now or just save the cash for my next clutch job.
Transmissions are entirely different. Case, gearset, etc...nothing is interchangeable between the 5 and 6 speed units. Size-wise, they live in the same physical space in the chassis as each other, so cramming 5 forwards instead of 6 into a trans leaves a little more room for increased gear size. The synchro detent system in the 6spd is really inferior, and we see the springs broken all the time; this jams the synchro sleeves in place and kill the trans. I've actually never seen a broken gear in a 6 speed, but the broken synchro springs will render it inoperative for sure. Another shortcoming is that Mitsu does not sell parts for the 6spd output cluster individually...if a detent spring, synchro, etc ***** out then the entire cluster has to be purchased/replaced as a unit, and that's not cheap.
Bonus points for the 5spd: The ball bearings can be swapped out for tapered rollers on the input shaft so proper preloading can be set, a mix of Evo8 and 9 gears can be used for better ratio spacing, and we have 2 final drive options for it as well. We see plenty of these with broken gears, but I think that's a function of the relative rarity of the 6spd, and the reliability issues scaring people off, so it's the 5spd that is predominantly beaten up.
The car has been running for about two weeks. Just finished break in two days ago, and finally am able to take it above 4500 (who am I kidding... to redline!) and max it out on wastegate pressure. I haven't hooked up the EBC or 4 bar MAP sensor yet, so that will be coming next week along with further tuning.
We have it running well and safely with no knock. The car is a blast. It read as 320whp on wastegate pressure. Yep, that's right. Wastegate pressure is 10-11 PSI. Targeted boost level will be about 21-24. This is on 91 octane.
Best of all, drivability is incredibly good. Response from the engine is absolutely fantastic and incredibly good. Just a fantastic daily driver.
And the clutch... I can't recommend the CenterForce Dual Friction clutch enough. The pedal feel is lighter than stock, yet supposed to be rated to hold 450 ft-lbs.
Anyways, here's some fun photos. Hope everyone is out there enjoying their cars as much as I am.
Miata part out coming soon. DIYRoadster door bars, garagestar fender braces, Blackbird GT3, Supermiata Rad... lots of good stuff.
How do you part-out a Blackbird GT3? Is there a model without the welded-in door bars?
Thanks! As stated above, the GT3 comes without door bars, those are weld in only at Moti's shop and expensive as hell.
Originally Posted by glade
Absolute love, well done, thanks for documentation!
Thank you, I've had a great time documenting it and having even more fun driving it now.
Originally Posted by Lexzar
Making my desire for a well-kept and thought out evo viii even worse.
This is pretty much exactly what my car's goal was. Glad to hear those kind words. This car took hours and hours and hours and countless sleepless nights just of parts research and trying to build the perfect Evo, with drivability, reliability in mind.
Very nice. is the 320 on VD or a physical dyno?
No offense but 10psi and 320whp doesn't add up on ca91 pump gas unless you're running a giant 35r or larger.
This is an HTA71 right?
Very nice. is the 320 on VD or a physical dyno?
No offense but 10psi and 320whp doesn't add up on ca91 pump gas unless you're running a giant 35r or larger.
This is an HTA71 right?
No, no you're absolutely right. I actually corrected the VD. I had some of the weight settings set up wrong. I thought the numbers seemed completely wrong also.
After the corrections I've made and a good solid second gear pull to redline, it is reading more like 270whp average between several runs. And I'm pretty confident that that is accurate, butt dyno wise and it just makes much more sense.
If that is the case, then we certainly have a good improvement over stock, as stock is claimed at ~270ish bhp, and I am running less than half the boost of stock.
No worries, I'm sure it's gonna make a ton of power once you go past 20, those new 71's really like higher boost. on e85 that's an upper 400 wheel setup without even sweating it too much.
No worries, I'm sure it's gonna make a ton of power once you go past 20, those new 71's really like higher boost. on e85 that's an upper 400 wheel setup without even sweating it too much.
Have you done much tuning on the Evo's? I've got a weird situation with high knock count on one of my logs, low load and low RPM. However on my recent logs at high RPM and WOT along with plenty of normal driving, zero knock. What do you think? Phantom knock? Perhaps knock sensor just picking up noise?
Like I said, this log was from a few days ago. I had a bracket break loose the day after this log. And as of now I have very rare 1-2 knocksums appearing, but at WOT high load I am getting 0 all the way through my logs. We didn't change much in the tune. The gas has been CA 91 Shell. The high knocksum seems to be isolated to this log only.
loose parts or rattly heat shields can trick the knock sensor easily. if you can't replicate it its probably not an issue. perhaps the bracket you mentioned.
go out and try to replicate that rpm/load/situation and check
loose parts or rattly heat shields can trick the knock sensor easily. if you can't replicate it its probably not an issue. perhaps the bracket you mentioned.
go out and try to replicate that rpm/load/situation and check
18psi, if you don't mind please go through this log. Notice lines 4451. Very high knocksum values, it has to just be harmonics in the engine going on no? It seems the high knocksum is always happening in the same RPM range. Either way, that number scares the **** out of me.
Thank you very much in advance. After spending so much money, I am very paranoid as expected.
My tuner and I are going over things. We've reduced timing in the cruising in the 3k RPM area to see if it doesn't fix things up. I'm going out to log now. It's just nice to have another tuner's input.
things missing from that log like wideband input, map sensor (if you installed one yet), etc.
but it does look like a really loud area from 3-3500 that's freaking the knock sensor out. since engine is built it could be that, or it could be something rattling in the bay that's loose or something.
I would tend to doubt that it's actual knock, since you can see it skyrocket at 8* just the same as it does at 26* of advance. that's 18 degress less timing. also might want to check mivec advance to make sure y'all are not advancing too much in that area
things missing from that log like wideband input, map sensor (if you installed one yet), etc.
but it does look like a really loud area from 3-3500 that's freaking the knock sensor out. since engine is built it could be that, or it could be something rattling in the bay that's loose or something.
I would tend to doubt that it's actual knock, since you can see it skyrocket at 8* just the same as it does at 26* of advance. that's 18 degress less timing. also might want to check mivec advance to make sure y'all are not advancing too much in that area
Wideband O2 (Innovate MTX-L) has been very finnicky when connecting it to my computer via Evoscan. I'm still working on getting it working in the logs. The MAP sensor is on it's way, not installed yet. And I'm an 8, so no MIVEC.
I agree that it certainly looks like phantom knock due to the fact that it knocks more in certain areas even with less timing.
Thanks for checking my logs out. I'm going out today to go log with even less timing in the 3-3.5k area to see if it makes a difference, if not then it is definitely noises causing the knock sensor to freak out.
If it is phantom knock... what do you suggest at that point?
reduce that area to something crazy like 5*, if it still picks up anything then you'll need to start adjusting knock sensor settings to basically to numb it down in that area (again, assuming nothing is rattling around in the bay and this is in fact piston slap or something internal). I'm not sure which rom you're using, but if I remember correctly some of the fairly developed ones (tephra?) do have additional features to dial this stuff in.
it's been at least a year or two since I touched an evo8, don't remember what all ecuflash/evoscan has available these days.
01-09-2017, 03:15 AM
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