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Old 01-28-2016, 01:00 PM   #2521
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Pat your experience is on one BP motor.

Current plan of attack:
New plugs gapped to .030
Confirm timing with a timing light
Get ms3 knock module
Lean out to 11.
If its still misfiring. Carefully add timing.

But for now the car is down for a couple weeks. Offset LCA bushings, 949 tophats and powder coating the valve cover
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Old 01-28-2016, 01:27 PM   #2522
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
I've experienced different results, so......it's a theory based on your reality

adding timing to a motor that's already pinging is dumb

If anything I'd drop the gap and lean it out to low 11's first
What is a theory? That low timing drives up EGTs?

I have not posted any theory's, just facts.

Fact: Less timing = higher EGTs due to lower thermal efficiency.

Fact: I burned all 8 exhaust valve steam seals running 8* timing at the track at 28 PSI the first time I tracked it.

Fact: I replaced the seals with the same brand as before, and have tracked it 6 times since, making MORE power than before, with all 8 valve stem seals working normally.

I hope that clears up whatever theory you think I wrote.
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Old 01-28-2016, 01:40 PM   #2523
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patsmx5 View Post
What is a theory? That low timing drives up EGTs?

I have not posted any theory's, just facts.

Fact: Less timing = higher EGTs due to lower thermal efficiency.

Fact: I burned all 8 exhaust valve steam seals running 8* timing at the track at 28 PSI the first time I tracked it.

Fact: I replaced the seals with the same brand as before, and have tracked it 6 times since, making MORE power than before, with all 8 valve stem seals working normally.

I hope that clears up whatever theory you think I wrote.
It's irrelevant in this case. Do I seriously need to explain why?

Last edited by 18psi; 01-28-2016 at 01:59 PM.
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Old 01-28-2016, 01:41 PM   #2524
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Fact: Kris Osheim knows more than you.

Aiden make sure to check mechanical tdc while the crank reads 0 before trusting a timing light.
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Old 01-28-2016, 01:43 PM   #2525
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Will do. I know we checked it when the belt was installed, but the crank pulley did come off at laguna seca.
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Old 01-28-2016, 01:43 PM   #2526
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Oh, supermiata damper will be going on too. With a 36-2 timing wheel for all the accuracy.
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Old 01-28-2016, 01:56 PM   #2527
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curly View Post
Just change your min so it doesn't error. Sounds stupid but that's what I've done with no issues so far.
Using the VVT test output VVT angle stays at around 38* no matter what I change the output to. This seems wrong.
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Old 01-28-2016, 02:04 PM   #2528
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
It's irrelevant in this case. Do I seriously need to explain why?
No, and I agree it's irrelevant to discuss this as it's common sense. I'm sure he'll get it tuned and running right soon enough, he has a good plan of attack.
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Old 01-28-2016, 02:06 PM   #2529
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aidandj View Post
Oh, supermiata damper will be going on too. With a 36-2 timing wheel for all the accuracy.
Is MS3 all peachy with running that now with sequential?
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Old 01-28-2016, 02:07 PM   #2530
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
Is MS3 all peachy with running that now with sequential?
MS3 didnt change. SPM damper used to be 36-1. Now its 36-2.

Why would my VVT angle not change in test mode?
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Old 01-28-2016, 02:10 PM   #2531
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car was on and you were revving it to generate oil pressure?
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Old 01-28-2016, 02:12 PM   #2532
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Quote:
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...
Why would my VVT angle not change in test mode?
Not enough oil pressure to actuate it. On my stock VVT motor, it needed 1,800 or so RPMs for the VVT to work reliably with 10W-30 motor oil. Now with no oil squirters and a few other changes, it works at idle.
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Old 01-28-2016, 02:21 PM   #2533
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Pretty sure we were cruising at constant throttle.

Is 38* fully retarded or advanced?
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Old 01-28-2016, 02:28 PM   #2534
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38* vvt angle? fully advanced
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Old 01-28-2016, 02:30 PM   #2535
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So VVT angle is degrees advanced from minimum? So if my minimum is 265 then 38* is 303?

For some reason I'm struggling to find a basic "Setup VVT guide". I found the MS3x and VVT thread but its about advance tuning practices for VVT.

(searching the manual now)

edit: there it is.

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Old 01-28-2016, 02:36 PM   #2536
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Ok found setting up the VVT info. But the only VVT angle readout I see is a 0-50 degree gauge. Where is the actual cam angle gauge?
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Old 01-28-2016, 02:39 PM   #2537
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I know I either had a thread about this or it's buried somewhere in my build thread, but we had a really cool discussion about vvt a long time ago, when I had issues with it going wonky. I'll dig it up if bored later, but maybe you can find it. rev, brain, ben, all sorts of MS people chimed in.

I don't think you'll get a gauge showing degrees cam. you just set min/max and it shows you variation within that range
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Old 01-28-2016, 02:40 PM   #2538
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Yep, been reading it: ITT: MS3X VVT settings and tuning

Then found this: VVT setup and test procedure - help please

But zaphod never gets his question answered.
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Old 01-28-2016, 02:48 PM   #2539
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So for a second here everyone's saying the car is pinging.

We know it's misfiring. Do you think it's pinging and that's causing the misfire, or is it just misfiring? It doesn't feel like the knock I've experienced (in other vehicles) in the past, but I am not extremely well calibrated to say the least. If it's knock causing the misfire, that's a helluva lot of knock. Like insane knock. But I really don't think that's it...

When we tuned it, we did gap the plugs, and I'm running LS coils. We should NOT be having issues with spark blowout. WTF.

anyway, back to Aidan's game plan posted above. Ordering new plugs (this will be the third or 4th set since I put the car back together) and will work on the knock module. Will probably also try to get back on a dyno. Will be having Ben do alignment and corner balance at PRE after the new tophats and control arm/offset bushings, so I might pay for an hour or two on their load bearing dyno while it's up there. Get the SPM damper, make sure it's all correct, and do caveman work on Aidans car (brake lines) while he does engineer work on my car (knock sensor and tuning and such).
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Old 01-28-2016, 03:15 PM   #2540
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There's no way to just "know" if it's knock or misfire or both. That's something you have to figure out and tell us
we had massive spark blowout tuning ryans car, wouldn't go past 21psi no matter what and he had ls3 coils too. are they genuine GM coils? he bought some "replacement" coils of some sort and they were worse than his Toyota cops
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