Trackspeed's '02SE "Acamas" - EFR6758, TSE motor, 400whp or bust - Page 9 - Miata Turbo Forum -Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 04-08-2016, 03:36 PM   #161
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Also helps that it is a 3/8"s in/out. So even bigger than our stock lines.
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Old 04-08-2016, 03:41 PM   #162
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MSLabs MS3 Basic in this car, right?

Pleasepleasepleasepleaseplease make this work so I can copy you.
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Old 04-13-2016, 02:26 AM   #163
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Deciding where to put the sensor in the engine bay was more difficult than I expected. I still have all the factory emissions equipment on the passenger side, as well as the ABS block and an aftermarket washer bottle. In the end, I decided to tuck it in next to the shock tower and mount it to the top of the OEM shock tower.

I'm using the standard Continental sensor:



The OEM application uses a short patch harness, which AFAIK is the cheapest way to get the sensor connector in pigtail form. Crimp/solder to longer wires and throw a little fingertrap loom over it:



I'm running the wiring for the sensor as well as my wheel speed signals for the Racelogic system through the OEM, so the factory blower motor comes out to gain access:



ECU wiring all opened up to tap into everything. +12v, tach, and injectors in/out for the Racelogic, and +5v/GND/signal for the ethanol sensor. Trying to keep things as tidy as possible, but I also know I'll be back in here later for an external MAP sensor and probably a few other things.



Going to try to mock up the bracket and plumb the fuel hoses tomorrow. I ordered the materials to build OEM-style fuel lines so everything should look "stock" when I'm done.
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Old 04-13-2016, 02:59 AM   #164
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very cool. finally someone will do this instead of just talking about it for years like aidan lol
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Old 04-13-2016, 04:40 AM   #165
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Lol

Aidan has been in the Miata community for a little over a year, and in that time has learned how to build and tune megasquirt, aided in the design of a new type of bushing kit, built and sold something like 100 inexpensive GPS units at virtually zero profit to members of the community, transplanted ABS into his car to avoid flat spotting tires as well as using it for traction control, he has helped develop an extremely inexpensive and effective big brake kit, wired my engine bay and built my megasquirt, and worked extensively on the Miatas of others, all of it without any significant pay.

He's also gone from a noob driving a stock Miata way over his head on take-offs and running into a tire wall, to a cautious and capable track driver who is honest about his capabilities.

I'm gonna say he's doing pretty damned good.

Also, nice work Andrew, great to see more progress on this thing.
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Old 04-13-2016, 12:00 PM   #166
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Originally Posted by turbofan View Post
BROMANCE. bromance... Bromance?
Wish I could have met you guys before I moved away from Portland.

On topic: I just realized that this car is running an ms3. It would be a great service to the community if you can figure out the map blend to an OEM level...
I attempted this thinking it would be easy on a friend's e36... Its not as simple as I thought and the interpolation between two maps still isn't quite right...

Last edited by leboeuf; 04-13-2016 at 12:12 PM.
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Old 04-13-2016, 12:08 PM   #167
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Thanks Ed

Vlad I will do it. Don't you worry

Also yank has done it too along with quite a few people on the msextra boards. And has been running it for about 8 months now. I think we even have logs somewhere of going from pump to e85. He is on an 11:1 compression FE3 with a 6758, so he doesn't run pump often.

He wired his sensor in right at the tank. I'll find pics when I get to work.

Andrew I would suggest spending some time on msextra. There is a wealth of info there that isn't on MT.net. the actual plumbing/wiring is the easy part. I have heard a few things 3rd hand from English racing (supafast gtrs/honduhs) bout tuning for flex fuel. The one that stuck with me the most is that they run allofit with timing and boost at the e85 we have around here, but as soon as they get a measurable amount of pump gas they ramp down quickly and then go linear from there to full pump gas.

Seems like although theoretically it should be a linear transition with timing and fuel from e85 to pump gas they like to play it safe and drop timing/fuel as soon as they get a little pump gas in.

I've been searching for a while and there is a ton of info about tuning for e85, but not very much about tuning the actual flex blend. Its something that should be explored on the dyno, and am really looking forward to your findings (should you choose to share them)
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Old 04-13-2016, 01:07 PM   #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aidandj View Post
He wired his sensor in right at the tank. I'll find pics when I get to work.
I almost resorted to that, but I thought it might create odd issues when switching between the two. At idle, it's going to take some time to clear the fuel lines on a returnless system, so I wanted the sensor as close to the rail as I could reasonably get it.

Quote:
Andrew I would suggest spending some time on msextra. There is a wealth of info there that isn't on MT.net. the actual plumbing/wiring is the easy part. I have heard a few things 3rd hand from English racing (supafast gtrs/honduhs) bout tuning for flex fuel. The one that stuck with me the most is that they run allofit with timing and boost at the e85 we have around here, but as soon as they get a measurable amount of pump gas they ramp down quickly and then go linear from there to full pump gas.

Seems like although theoretically it should be a linear transition with timing and fuel from e85 to pump gas they like to play it safe and drop timing/fuel as soon as they get a little pump gas in.
That makes sense from a safety standpoint. My plan is to have a pretty substantial delta between 91 and E85 (something like 7-8psi and 100whp).
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Old 04-13-2016, 01:20 PM   #169
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Lol
*wall of love-text*
this has nothing to do with his other accomplishments and everything with him saying 5,000 he'll do it and still hasn't. I give him tough love
Quote:
Originally Posted by aidandj View Post
The one that stuck with me the most is that they run allofit with timing and boost at the e85 we have around here, but as soon as they get a measurable amount of pump gas they ramp down quickly and then go linear from there to full pump gas.

Seems like although theoretically it should be a linear transition with timing and fuel from e85 to pump gas they like to play it safe and drop timing/fuel as soon as they get a little pump gas in.
this is correct/smart and also the way many other places/tuners do it. tag me when you post those pics plz
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I almost resorted to that, but I thought it might create odd issues when switching between the two. At idle, it's going to take some time to clear the fuel lines on a returnless system, so I wanted the sensor as close to the rail as I could reasonably get it.

That makes sense from a safety standpoint. My plan is to have a pretty substantial delta between 91 and E85 (something like 7-8psi and 100whp).
the times I've done it, it seriously took like 10-15 minutes for it to finally clear. I was really surprised. like, I could fill up with e85, drive home, and only then have to switch the map
I also wonder how effectively the fuel blending works, cause there's sometimes a full 1-2 afr swing between a blended tank and pure tank of e85
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Old 04-13-2016, 01:22 PM   #170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Savington View Post
I almost resorted to that, but I thought it might create odd issues when switching between the two. At idle, it's going to take some time to clear the fuel lines on a returnless system, so I wanted the sensor as close to the rail as I could reasonably get it.
His is a return system, so its still on the return line.

Found the pics:


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Trackspeed's '02SE "Acamas" - EFR6758, TSE motor, 400whp or bust-kg3wrer.jpg   Trackspeed's '02SE "Acamas" - EFR6758, TSE motor, 400whp or bust-0hmsrqs.jpg  
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Old 04-13-2016, 01:26 PM   #171
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OMFG, dude. Nylon hose, hose clamps, no EFI fittings. Hope it's insured for fire
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Old 04-13-2016, 01:29 PM   #172
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NA tank so no possibility of EFI fittings.. with flared ends. Pretty sure he has a fire system though


18psi pics above.

Can't find logs of swapping between e85 and 92. I'll bug him to get some soon.
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Old 04-13-2016, 01:38 PM   #173
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aidandj View Post
NA tank so no possibility of EFI fittings.. with flared ends. Pretty sure he has a fire system though
I've never liked the idea of nylon hose clamps around a beadroll, but that's not what makes my head spin. The E85 sensor has no beadroll - just smooth tube and a clip for a fuel injection fitting. Slipping a hose over an EFI fitting with a hose clamp is a huge nono. Dorman makes super cheap EFI to hose barb adapters that can be used with normal fuel hose and a hose clamp.
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Old 04-13-2016, 01:40 PM   #174
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Hmmmm. I thought he did something about that. I have those EFI to hose barb adapters. I'll ask him. Good point though. Especially if he cranks the fuel pressure.
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Old 04-13-2016, 02:42 PM   #175
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Sav, thanks for posting up progress. I love that you are actually documenting this so the rest of us can look over your shoulder.

I've got the Continental sensor with the longer tubes (PN13577394 IIRC?) I need to check and see if it outputs the same when I start copying your settings.

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Dorman makes super cheap EFI to hose barb adapters that can be used with normal fuel hose and a hose clamp.
^^ This is exactly what I used when I re-plumbed my NB as a return system. Proper rated Gates EFI fuel hose, proper EFI hose clamps, proper Dorman or Russell 644113 EFI fittings where appropriate. With 60psi base pressure and a manifold referenced 1:1 regulator I didn't want to take any chances. The risk is not worth the $5 saved on eBay fittings or 5 saved on generic hose clamps.
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Old 04-13-2016, 02:44 PM   #176
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I've got the Continental sensor with the longer tubes (PN13577394 IIRC?) I need to check and see if it outputs the same when I start copying your settings.
It does.

This is the best sensor reference I've found. BRB gonna go quote it somewhere for us to have.

http://www.mr2oc.com/202-alternative...el-sensor.html

Edit: Its live. Very good info. E85 Continental Flex Fuel Sensor Info

Last edited by aidandj; 04-13-2016 at 02:57 PM.
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Old 04-13-2016, 04:52 PM   #177
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S
^^ This is exactly what I used when I re-plumbed my NB as a return system. Proper rated Gates EFI fuel hose, proper EFI hose clamps, proper Dorman or Russell 644113 EFI fittings where appropriate. With 60psi base pressure and a manifold referenced 1:1 regulator I didn't want to take any chances. The risk is not worth the $5 saved on eBay fittings or 5 saved on generic hose clamps.
The guy who built the locost that I owned for a couple years had used 50 psi fuel hose and just pushed it onto the quick disconnect pipes with cheap worm-gear hose clamps. *shudder*. The Dorman adapters are cheap and easy, a box of a dozen of the proper hose clamps are $5 at Amazon, and while I'll admit the proper fuel hose is expensive (it was like $120 for 25 feet of Goodyear hose) it's way cheaper than a fire.

--Ian
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Old 04-13-2016, 05:51 PM   #178
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OMFG, dude. Nylon hose, hose clamps, no EFI fittings. Hope it's insured for fire
What are factory lines held on by?

I've seen it hold 100psi on 1000 wheel Evo's in the past. True, not the best option that exists but i wont loose sleep over it.
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Old 04-13-2016, 08:40 PM   #179
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What are factory lines held on by?
The beadroll at the end of the fuel line. Your E85 sensor doesn't have it. IOW, your fuel lines are held onto your E85 sensor by nothing more than hopes and dreams. Please fix before you burn your car down
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Old 04-13-2016, 08:53 PM   #180
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E85 sensor mounted:



Not the prettiest bracket, but it will do.



For the fuel lines, I picked up Dorman's 800-300 "Emergency" fuel line "Repair" kit. It has the tool, OEM-style vinyl fuel hose, and an assortment of fittings. I'm using 5/16 EFI to 5/16" barb fittings to come off the OEM fuel feed line, then a 3/8" EFI to 5/16" barb fitting on the E85 sensor. No adapters, all OEM-style connectors.

Assembling a straight connector to test fit (ended up using all 90s)



What it produces:



E85 sensor is all plumbed in. Next step is to confirm function in the ECU, then re-tune on E10, then tune on E85. The 10:1 pistons will really like E85. Too bad the rods won't

(built motor coming in a week or two)

Opening up the ABS wiring to tee into the wheel speed sensors to finish off the Racelogic install. Not for the faint of heart.



The stuff nightmares are made of, unless you did it Crimps and heat shrink are the norm around here. No solder in OEM harnesses, so there's no solder in mine.



Next step is to power up the ECU and RL boxes to set everything up, then clean up the colossal mess in the interior.
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