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Old 04-10-2013, 11:00 AM   #621
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I could have been raped.
You will be this August.
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Old 04-10-2013, 11:10 AM   #622
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You will be this August.
VA has better gun laws so I would warn you to watch out, but we both know Scott is to cheap to buy a gun and then buy the ammo required for it. He wouldn't even goto the range just to go shooting with me a few years back because range fees and ammo cost to much.
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Old 04-10-2013, 11:16 AM   #623
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I have a knife and blackjack.
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Old 04-10-2013, 06:38 PM   #624
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Former and current police surveyed, http://ddq74coujkv1i.cloudfront.net/...mmary_2013.pdf
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Old 04-10-2013, 06:43 PM   #625
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8 year old gets felony charges for shooting a bb gun:

8-Year-Old Nabbed on Felony BB Gun Charges - Todd Starnes - Page 1

Anti gunners have gone too far. I hope whomever is up for re-election gets trounced.
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Old 04-11-2013, 12:24 PM   #626
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For those that don't know... Congress is in session right now debating, and may have a vote today or likely tomorrow. The base bill is the Reid version of Background Checks... but there are also AWB and Mag-bans to be debated as amendments.

I'm pretty sure this is on CSPAN right now, running synopsis:

0800-0930
Debate has already started. Mike Lee is up pointing out that nobody has read the text of key components of the bill and that it is perfectly reasonable to delay debate on this until they have.

Vote on motion to proceed scheduled for 11am Eastern. Senate starting their day now.

Reid up. Time between parties to be divided equally and controlled by leaders. Asks the Senate to forego the 30 hour delay after motion vote so they can begin debate of the bill immediately. Says the first bill to be offered will be the Toomey-Manchin Amendment (that not even other Senators have seen yet - big surprise).

Reid says bill will be open to all related amendments. McConnell up now explaining why he opposes the motion to proceed.

Blumenthal up now. Babbling. Blumenthal supports Toomey-Manchin Amendment. Promises to spearhead magazine ban and AWB amendments.

Sen. Murphy talking about dead children to advance various bans.

Blumenthal now claiming gun lobby is trying to create a registry of all the mentally ill people in the United States?


0930-1030
Leahy babbling now. Coming off slightly senile; but not in a funny Biden way.

Cornyn up talking about mental health issues and reporting. Points out lack of prosecutions for NICS checks. Cornyn supports filibuster making same points as Mike Lee.

Pause. Vote for cloture in 5 minutes.

Vote in progress.

Motion passed. Filibuster is broken on motion to proceed. Still one more chance to filibuster.

Now we are waiting on the end of the vote and to find out what he schedule will be. Hopefully they make Reid wait 30 hours before starting debate so we may have a chance to see the Toomey-Manchin Amendment (first amendment up according to Reid).

Vote on motion to proceed: 68-31

Reid once again pushing to take up the debate immediately after lunch rather than wait the usual 30 hours. Still wants the first amendment to be Toomey-Manchin, although given that Sen. Cornyn said even the Senators still haven't seen any text, I don't know how they are going to pull that off.

Amendment schedule:

Toomey-Manchin
AWB
Magazine ban

After this they will allow the Republicans to catch up and the alternate D/R amendments.

Senate recessed until 2:30 eastern
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Old 04-11-2013, 12:40 PM   #627
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The Toomey-Manchin Amendment, which will be the first one debated this afternoon hasn't even been seen yet. Nobody knows what it says, yet they're expected to debate it in a couple hours.

Supposedly, it contains a few things:

- Provides a legal process for a veteran to contest his/her placement in NICS when there is no basis for barring the right to own a firearm. (as far as I know, there isn't a single instance of this being an issue... ie, I haven't heard any veteran fighting a ruling that they are prohibited from owning firearms based on mental illness).

and another -
- Fixes interstate travel laws for sportsmen who transport their firearms across state lines in a responsible manner. The term "transport" includes staying in temporary lodging overnight, stopping for food, buying fuel, vehicle maintenance, and medical treatment. (Federal gov't shitting on states rights... the states will fight this. Some states have very relaxed -or none at all- transport laws.)

and another -
- Protects sellers from lawsuits if the weapon cleared through the expanded background checks and is subsequently used in a crime. This is the same treatment gun dealers receive now. (Currently, it's not a crime to sell a gun to somebody you don't know is prohibited in states which allow FTF transfers... feel good "this is one of the bones they're trying to throw us")

and another -
- Authorizes use of a state concealed carry permit instead of a background check when purchasing a firearm from a dealer. (Already legal in many states... again, the Fed shitting on states rights to control intrastate commerce. Of course this has no effect in "may issue" states where the average person can't get a CCW anyways)

and one more -
- Permits interstate handgun sales from dealers. (More shitting on states rights).

OF COURSE NOBODY KNOWS WHAT IT WILL REALLY SAY. RIGHT NOW, THERE AREN'T ENOUGH REPS ON RECORD THAT SUPPORT THIS AMENDMENT... BUT THEY'RE AT LUNCH NOW, SO YOU CAN IMAGINE THE PHONE CALLS AND PROMISES THAT ARE BEING BACK-DOOR'D RIGHT NOW.
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Old 04-11-2013, 12:42 PM   #628
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Just saw one possibility...

NATIONAL RECIPROCITY:
Part of the Tommey-Manchin Amendment may include mandatory reciprocity amongst all states... ie, my FL CCW is good in any state.
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Old 04-11-2013, 01:03 PM   #629
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Sounds like another bill that was rushed through and now having huge implications on our lives and its not even fully implemented yet.
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Old 04-11-2013, 01:08 PM   #630
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Originally Posted by Tekel View Post
Sounds like another bill that was rushed through and now having huge implications on our lives and its not even fully implemented yet.
This is nothing new, or at least, I'm not surprised
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Old 04-11-2013, 02:17 PM   #631
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You gotta pass the laws to read them and see what ill effects they have, then never repeal them becuase we dont do that. Just make another bad law to make things worse while trying to repair the damage already dealt!
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Old 04-11-2013, 02:55 PM   #633
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Thanks for the update, Sam. Some of the "guncentric" sites are not always easily accessible from my main location during the day
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Old 04-11-2013, 07:45 PM   #634
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Updates:

1500
They're discussing S.649 - a Bill from Harry Reid that swallowed up three smaller bills into one bigger package... school security, straw sales, and the Schumer bill we all know and hate. Current assumptions/expectations are the Toomey/Manchin bill/plan/whatever it is, will be offered as an amendment to the Schumer portion of the bill as regards background checks.

Also Reid is going to demand that any future filibusters on this bill meet the rules exactly and he is going to sweat them out.


Finally, don't think we are going to see much today. Senate rules say that a written amendment must be submitted and it doesn't seem like the key amendment is ready to go. I think most of the "debate" today is going to be backroom wheeling and dealing on number and order of amendments.

What I'm posting here is a cut/paste from THEFIRINGLINE in their Law Forum. I visit there pretty much daily to keep up to speed. Many of the hi-count posters in that forum are lawyers who happen to be gun guys. They do a tremendous job of cutting through the bullshit, and are very quick to dispel or completely shut down conspiracy type stuff. I've become a big fan of a few of those guys.
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Old 04-11-2013, 08:09 PM   #635
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Originally Posted by samnavy View Post
What I'm posting here is a cut/paste from THEFIRINGLINE in their Law Forum.
That's a value-add for some of us. :cheers:
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Old 04-11-2013, 11:04 PM   #636
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Here you go... the actual current verbiage of the Toomey-Manchun Bill:
Sen. Toomey Offers Full Text Of Public Safety And Second Amendment Rights Protection Act Online | Pat Toomey | Senator for Pennsylvania

It's not a long read, and it does several things I won't talk about other than to mention them here:
Funding for various things like the huge increase in NICS useage,
Mental health reporting mandates,
Veterans rights,
Makes a "national firearms registry" illegal,
Transportation rules (makes it way easier to transport firearms across state lines and not get arrested).

There is some other ****... but first, I have to tell you about gunshows.

There are 3 types of people selling guns at gunshows:

The first type is a regular licensed dealer who has rented tables and is selling new or used guns and is required ALREADY to have a NICS check done for every gun he sells. These guys have to obey the laws just like if they were selling from their brick&mortar store.

The second type is anybody else who rented tables and is selling his own personal firearms... (ie, the guy selling beef jerky or ninja stars might also have a gun or 3 for sale on his table.) This person is not a licensed dealer but in many states can legally sell his personal firearms to another without a background check. It doesn't matter that this sale is done at a gunshow... could easily be done at the guys house or in a Walmart parking lot. This type of sale is what is commonly referred to as "THE GUNSHOW LOOPHOLE" and is responsible for very few firearms used in crimes.

The third type is a regular guy who paid admission to the show and is walking around with a gun for sale. Just like the second type of guy, he can buy/sell personal firearms all day long without a background check to the seller.

NOTE: It is ILLEGAL for Type 2/3 guys to sell a gun to somebody if they believe that person is otherwise PROHIBITED... ie, a felon.

NOTE: FTF sales of handguns can only be done to people who are residents of the same state. Rifles/Shotguns can be bought/sold without background checks to people who are resident of different states as long as both states don't prohibit it.

For example... as a military person, I am legally a resident of both Florida (where I vote and hold a drivers license) and Virginia (where my orders have me). I can buy/sell handguns to residents of both of those states, but not to somebody who lives in Tennessee unless I transfer the gun through an FFL and he does the background check on the buyer. Certain states (guess which ones) completely outlaw FTF sales no matter who you are. NOTE: Most states, even California, allow FTF sales of Curios&Relics (guns older than 50yrs with historic values... Mosin Nagants and Tokarev's for example).

MOVING ON TO INTERNET SALES:
Apparently, some liberal somewhere learned about Armslist and had a ******* spaz. For those who don't know, Armslist is like Craigslist but for guns. See something you like? Email the seller and arrange a place to meet and do business. In states that allow FTF, you can meet anywhere you like and buy/sell a gun without a background check. If you live in states that prohibit FTF sales, you need to meet a gunshop and pay an FFL to do a background check on the buyer. In California, an FFL will charge anywhere from $50 to $100 to do this for you.

In addition to INTERNET SALES, the verbiage listed below expands enforcement to "any publication"... so various rags, newspaper, whatever.

SO.... the BILL:
The bill does a few things:

(2), it shall be unlawful for any person other than a licensed dealer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed importer to complete the transfer of a firearm to any other person who is not licensed under this chapter, if such transfer occurs-
"(A) at a gun show or event, on the curtilage thereof; or
"(B) pursuant to an advertisement, posting, display or other listing on the Internet or in a publication by the transferor of his intent to transfer, or the transferee of his intent to acquire, the firearm.


First: It specifically makes FTF gunshow sales illegal. Guys who are Type 2/3 can no longer sell their personal firearms SPECIFICALLY AT THE SHOW without walking a few tables over and paying an FFL his fee for doing a background check. They include the verbiage of "on the curtailage thereof" to prevent people from walking outside the show to the parking lot and doing it.

NOTE: The NICS/FBI background check itself is free, but the FFL will charge a fee to fill out the paperswork and make a call.

Second: It specifically targets people who somehow used the internet (ie, Armslist) to arrange a sale. These types of sales (with internet somehow involved) now need to have a NICS check done through an FFL. This has no effect on legitimate businesses selling guns on the internet as they have to ship guns to an FFL already.

EXCEPTIONS... "the bone they throw us":

1. I'm still trying to decipher it exactly, but it looks like you don't ever have to do a background check if you have a CCW. I think this includes FTF sales... ie, as a seller, if the buyer has a CCW, you don't need to go to an FFL... need to make sure I'm reading this right.

2. Transfers within the family do not need a background check:
the transfer is made between spouses, between parents or spouses of parents and their children or spouses of their children, between siblings or spouses of siblings, or between grandparents or spouses of grandparents and their grandchildren or spouses of their grandchildren, or between aunts or uncles or their spouses and their nieces or nephews or their spouses, or between first cousins, if the transferor does not know or have reasonable cause to believe that the transferee is prohibited from receiving or possessing a firearm under Federal, State, or local law

Some of it is a bit too much "lawyer bullshit" for me to decipher.

So there you go.

Last edited by samnavy; 04-11-2013 at 11:20 PM.
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Old 04-14-2013, 03:18 PM   #637
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Old 04-15-2013, 10:23 AM   #638
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Home invasions are most commonly associated with illegal trafficking...
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Old 04-15-2013, 10:25 AM   #639
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If we outlaw illegal trafficking the problem will be solved then? then no more home invasions, then no more need for guns for protection.


also, we should outlaw certain books; especially ones like Orwell's. The first amendment doesn't say congress cant ban specific books.
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Old 04-16-2013, 05:00 PM   #640
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