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Old 08-19-2014, 08:42 AM   #2881
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recurring theme: dont call the police anything you want something dead




it's weird how joeP thinks I'm crazy for all these posts, yet suddenly now the conversation is happening throughout the nation.

hell even obama cut his vacation short to hold a press conference about the war in Iraq and the war in MO.
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Old 08-19-2014, 08:45 AM   #2882
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recurring themes: police hate freedom of speech. police hate cameras.

[ll]29d_1408250420[/ll]
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Old 08-19-2014, 08:51 AM   #2883
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cops hate reporters:

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Old 08-19-2014, 10:25 AM   #2884
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Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
it's weird how joeP thinks I'm crazy for all these posts, yet suddenly now the conversation is happening throughout the nation.
I don't think you're crazy, I just think you have a needlessly binary point of view, and seem more interested in spewing hate and fear than in having a conversation.

At first, I honestly thought you were joking when you started posting in this thread. Now, I honestly can't figure out what's going on here. I assume that there must be some personal trauma in your past for which you blame an authority figure, and that you're lashing out against that memory in anger.

Regardless of the underlying cause, there's really no point in trying to have a rational conversation with an extremist. I can no more convince a Palestinian that Israel has a right to exist (or vise-versa) than I can convince you that Police officers basically represent a normal cross-section of all humans, and that while this means that a certain percentage of them are ********, that by and large they tend to be fairly average people.

It's fine. I can certainly understand, and sympathize with, the problem of being absolutely convinced of the ineffable and absolute truth of something, to the point of being unable to even contemplate discussions which offer an opposing point of view, even in the face of mountains of evidence to the contrary. It's no different from talking to someone who is a Christian and a young-earth creationist, and asking them to explain why they believe that their faith requires them to reject pretty much all of present-day cosmology and evolutionary biology.
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Old 08-19-2014, 10:30 AM   #2885
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It's easier at this point for me to find police abuse stories online daily, than new pictures of cats.

If that doesn't scream systematic failure, I dunno what does.


I don't condone the actions of criminals (police or alike), at the same time I give all respect/credit where credit it due. I have no problem defending the rights of the accused (unlike many of you in this thread) or defending the actions of a police officer.

Correct, you will never convince me that police represent a normal cross-section of all humans. It's just not the truth.

I find your standpoint humorous based on the volcano blast of mountain-face leveling evidence to your contrary that I post every single day. Could I post every story, it would be 7-Hiroshima leveling blasts worth.

My personal story only supports my viewpoint with varying regards; but has no validity/point to this thread.

Last edited by Braineack; 08-19-2014 at 11:10 AM.
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Old 08-19-2014, 10:42 AM   #2886
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Meanwhile, it is surprisingly easy to find pics of police cats.
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Old 08-19-2014, 11:04 AM   #2887
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Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
oh here, let me help you with that:

Reoccurring theme?

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Old 08-19-2014, 11:15 AM   #2888
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yes.

All walks of life; pun intended.




and yes, somehow police and people in wheelchairs can live peacefully together:
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Old 08-19-2014, 12:07 PM   #2889
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recurring them: average cops from all walks of life love to trespass on your property and shoot your dogs.

Chicago police shoot and kill family dog during chase | WGN-TV

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A south side family awoke to screaming and gunshots and found police in their yard and their family dog dead.

Terry Taylor says police told him they were chasing someone, and wound up in Taylor’s backyard at 59th and Martin Luther King Drive.

Officers opened the gate, covered with a Beware of Dog sign, then shot dead the 120 pound Italian Mastiff named Castro, who was outside at the time.

The dog’s owner is devastated. The family has had the dog since it was a pup and calls 9-year-old Castro a member of the family.

The owners want the body of the dog removed and cremated at the city’s expense.

Police say the dog charged at them before they fired.
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Old 08-19-2014, 12:11 PM   #2890
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recurring theme: teen dies in prison because law enforcement comes from all walks of life

Rikers Teen Inmate Dies in Agony After Officials Ignore Torn Artery for Months - Hit & Run : Reason.com

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For months, Andy Henriquez, a 19-year-old inmate at Rikers Island in New York City, complained about chest pain to prison guards. Other inmates who could hear the teen's agonized screams pleaded with correctional officers to help him. But the shoddy medical care Henriquez received did nothing to alleviate his symptoms. Eventually, a doctor wrote him a prescription for hand cream.

Hours later, Henriquez was found dead. An autopsy determined that Henriquez had gradually succumbed to a torn aorta—something a hospital could have treated had medical personnel bothered to conduct cardiac examinations.
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Old 08-19-2014, 12:20 PM   #2891
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recurring theme: Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

I would allude that this says something about police officers in general, but since they all normal everyday people that could have taken any job, and have nothing but the best wishes for their fellow man, and come from different walks of life, I'm going to assume that it is universal knowledge that if you continually tase someone it is: 1. NOT torture 2. will reanimate people 3. physical violence is the best way to motivate people.

I dont even know why I'm posting this, because I see this all the time. My boss usually tases me to get to work. She typically tases me so much that I pass out from the shock, and she apparently continues to tase me so much, that my coworkers have to intervene and offer to do my work for me so that she'll stop.

It's pretty much normal behavior that people shouldn't even be reminded about or made aware of. I'm pretty much the bad apple spoiling the bunch here.

Female Police Officer Keeps Endlessly Tazering Unresponsive Man | Sure News

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A startling display of police brutality was captured on camera on Friday, Aug. 15th. Officer Becky Sotherland, 32, of the Pine Ridge tribal police screams at a man to get into her vehicle as he lay on the ground helpless and handcuffed.

The man, incapacitated, unresponsive, and unable to get into the vehicle, is hit with a stun gun repeatedly as Sotherland yells at him to get in the car threatening that, “It’s gonna get you again,” referring to the 50,000 volts of electrical current delivered by the tazer.

Sotherland continually brutalizes the man until finally horrified onlookers begin yelling for the assault to stop, telling the officer they will help get the man into the vehicle themselves, as they are disgusted at the scene taking place before their eyes.

Sotherland obviously wasn’t using the stun gun as a means of defense, s the man is laying helplessly on the ground handcuffed, rather she is using it as a means of sadistic punishment in an attempt to motivate him to get into her police cruiser as she is seemingly too lazy to simply put the suspect into the cruiser herself.
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Old 08-19-2014, 11:46 PM   #2892
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Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
Correct, you will never convince me that police represent a normal cross-section of all humans. It's just not the truth.

I find your standpoint humorous based on the volcano blast of mountain-face leveling evidence to your contrary that I post every single day. Could I post every story, it would be 7-Hiroshima leveling blasts worth.

My personal story only supports my viewpoint with varying regards; but has no validity/point to this thread.
I suppose that it really just boils down to whether, as a matter of personal preference, you would rather complain about injustice and point fingers at strawman enemies, or figure out how to protect yourself from injustice and avoid scenarios in which you are likely to be victimized.

I'll not pass judgement either way, except to say that it's kind of foolish to mistake people who choose the latter path for those who support and encourage an unchecked police-state mentality. Just because I don't give a **** about some wannabe thug in East Cracktown getting shot because he [attacked / was belligerent to / made an apparently threatening gesture towards] a police officer doesn't mean that I'll not do everything in my power to avoid putting myself or my family in that same situation.


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Old 08-20-2014, 12:35 AM   #2893
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Why is it either/or?

Why can't I carefully avoid speeding tickets while also publicly supporting raising the limit?

Why can't I dutifully pay my taxes while also lobbying for lower future taxes?

And, in the spirit of this thread, why can't I avoid personally avoid provoking cops while also supporting increased accountability and oversight into the abuse of authority by law enforcement?
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Old 08-20-2014, 06:33 AM   #2894
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Originally Posted by mgeoffriau View Post
Why is it either/or?
I'm honestly not sure, and struggling to understand that has caused me endless confusion. (I'm pretty much over it at this point.)

I know that it has to be either/or based principally on statements such as:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
you will never convince me that...

This sort of closed-mindedness is typically reserved for conversations with religious extremists, such as young-earth creationists who reject pretty much all of present-day cosmology and evolutionary biology based on the belief that the foundational scriptures of their faith fundamentally oppose such ideas. This, of course, is a fallacious interpretation (the book of Genesis does not at any point specify the exact physical processes employed by God when he/they created the universe, the earth, and life on earth,) but it is nonetheless an interpretation which closes off the minds of those who posses it to any possibility of rational discourse.

Example:




But that is an entirely separate thread...
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Old 08-20-2014, 07:33 AM   #2895
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Originally Posted by mgeoffriau View Post
And, in the spirit of this thread, why can't I avoid personally avoid provoking cops while also supporting increased accountability and oversight into the abuse of authority by law enforcement?
I'd have thought that was possible as well.
I learned, however, that any attempt to reason in this way was immediately met with accusations of "blaming the victim," which falls into roughly the same category of conversation-killing phrases as "check your privilege."
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Old 08-20-2014, 10:17 AM   #2896
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This sort of closed-mindedness is typically reserved for conversations with religious extremists, such as young-earth creationists who reject pretty much all of present-day cosmology and evolutionary biology based on the belief that the foundational scriptures of their faith fundamentally oppose such ideas.
I voted for John Kerry. How closed-minded could I be?

Why is it that when I've formed an opinion, based on fact/experience, I'm a closed-minded religious extremist?

Why can't I look a data, and think to myself: there seems to be a trend here. And then explore the trend to form an opinion?

Why is is, that when I start with one viewpoint on a subject matter, and then change my opinion/view on the matter; I'm a flat-earth society member?

Can one have a different opinion than Joe without being labled as closed-minded? Are you closed-minded for being closed-minded on this issue?

My capacity to reason has taken me where I am today, Joe.

All I'm doing here is pointing out a problem as I see it; I add my hyperbole to add entertainment value, because, well, that's what I like to do.

I'm not out looting or condoning looting. I'm not condoning violence against police. I'm not condoning violence by police on citizens. I'm not even suggesting we dissolve the police. I'm not out there posting my own videos. Hell, I pretty much work in law enforcement.

Your position is that if you ignore the problem and just act compliant, yessa masta, then the problem doesn't exist.

My position is that, sure that may work for you--that's not even bad advice-- but from the stories of many links from this very thread prove, that it's not always to case. Police have ruined the lives of manyy innocent, law-abiding people.

The job of police is to give you tickets or arrest you for a crime; they care little about anything else*. Police are trained to get you to waive your rights and give up information that will lead to your own arrest. And many police, as we find, are willing to ignore your rights, break the law, in order to make these arrests. And to make matters worse, they are legally allowed to use physical force against you (if that matters or not). Police interactions are one of the few interactions one may have in their lifetime that can be completely life-altering, and many times not in a good way.

So yes, your point of view is fine and dandy, but the above is a big problem and you should be, in the least, prepared and protect yourself using the information learned in this thread. People can assert their rights without: being a shitbag, associating with shitbags, running, hiding hands, non-compliance when/if arrested, being loud, pumping chest out. You just need to protect yourself, you have all the discretion to choose what level that may be.


*The governor of MO determined that the safety of police officers was more important than protecting the private property of business owners, and preventing crime in Ferguson, and he ordered police to stand down to looters and let criminals run hog-wild around the city. Protecting private property and arresting criminals is one of the few jobs that our police/gov't are "hired" to do.
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Old 08-20-2014, 11:52 AM   #2897
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
I'd have thought that was possible as well.
I learned, however, that any attempt to reason in this way was immediately met with accusations of "blaming the victim," which falls into roughly the same category of conversation-killing phrases as "check your privilege."
You misunderstand. I'm talking about how I personally handle those situations; not how I determine who is right or wrong.

If the purpose of this thread is to merely comment on whether or not the victim could possibly have avoided violent contact with police, it wouldn't be very interesting.

If the purpose of the thread is to discuss who is right or wrong, and in the cases where the police are wrong, to discuss whether it's a result of one bad individual, or institutional trends, or law enforcement culture, or whatever, then it's much more interesting.

And if we want to discuss the personal responsibility on the part of the victim, then I think the more interesting angle is not to speculate whether or not he could have avoided contact with the police, but instead to discuss what a citizen's attitude toward police ought to be in a healthy society. Is it good and normal for regular citizens to view LEO's as bullies and fear interacting with them? Is the culture of paranoia around LEO's inevitable or have the stories about cops being killed during traffic stops been overplayed? When petty, nonviolent criminals are killed or seriously injured by police, should we shrug our shoulders because they were lawbreakers, or should we be concerned that the response was disproportionate?
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Old 08-20-2014, 12:45 PM   #2898
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22 Year Old With Down Syndrome Beaten By The Police For ‘Bulge In Pants’ That Was Only A Colostomy Bag

Cop says "I'm not a doctor, I didn't know".

22 Year Old With Down Syndrome Beaten By The Police For ?Bulge In Pants? That Was Only A Colostomy Bag | The Free Thought Project
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Old 08-20-2014, 01:46 PM   #2899
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgeoffriau View Post
If the purpose of this thread is to merely comment on whether or not the victim could possibly have avoided violent contact with police, it wouldn't be very interesting.

If the purpose of the thread is to discuss who is right or wrong, and in the cases where the police are wrong, to discuss whether it's a result of one bad individual, or institutional trends, or law enforcement culture, or whatever, then it's much more interesting.

And if we want to discuss the personal responsibility on the part of the victim, then I think the more interesting angle is not to speculate whether or not he could have avoided contact with the police, but instead to discuss what a citizen's attitude toward police ought to be in a healthy society.
And that's all just fine. I'd hope that everyone here knows me well enough to know that I have no issue at all with pretty much any line of rational discussion.

The problem comes when a thread stops being about discussion of any kind, and instead devolves into "In this thread you may post only things which reinforce my particular dystopian view of society. All other ideas will be deleted and the poster made fun of and called unpleasant names."

That's not ok.
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Old 08-20-2014, 01:59 PM   #2900
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I dont think any names I called you were that particularly unpleasant.



I deleted some of your posts that didn't fit the spirit of the thread and were a bit an antagonizing.

I deleted the malicous dog thread because I felt it was a bit personal attackish.

I didn't call you because I didn't I needed clarify/justify myself to you, and then I just plain forgot, but I did put you number in my phone--one of the like 5 numbers I have.

I call you out a lot, because I just think it's fun
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