Braineack

iTrader: (62)

A picture of police running around the streets with fishing nets swooping up mexicans came to my head.

Last time I got pulled over, the officer asked for my license and registration... should I have called my lawyer?

With this law there must be a legitimate reason to make contact. During law enforcement operations, you should be able to ask for identification, which most police do anyway on a daily basis, you are required by law to provide police with your name. So they ask for your ID and see if your here illegally by checking out your citizenship or immigration status. They won't go around picking people off the streets because they look like they're from another country just because of their race.

You'll get ticketed for driving around without a license, and if you are who you say you are they can look you up on their computers, verify you're a citizen and you'll see them at your court date for driving without a license.


one solution to the problem would be taking out the mexican drug cartel with nukes.

Braineack

iTrader: (62)

yeah, there's NO problem in AZ at all.

Doppelgänger

iTrader: (12)

I can't ******* stand people who pull this bullshit. Not saying you Renn, but the people who resort to this argument or the media that interviews people who go on about **** similar to this. Boofuckinghooo...you're here illegally...if ya couldn't do it right, too ******* bad....don't care how long you have been here or how many little bastards you've popped out on US soil to take advantage of our medical care that you never have to pay for.

y8s

iTrader: (8)

can the cops bust down your door for no reason if they suspect you're doing something illegal inside but have no proof beforehand?

in essence, the "illegal alien" shakedown method presumes you are guilty and then proves your innocence. that's not how this country is supposed to work.

Braineack

iTrader: (62)

the law doesn't give or deny this authority...

It does: Allow[s] a[n] law enforcement officer, without a warrant, to arrest a person if the officer has probable cause to believe that the person has committed any public offense that makes the person removable from the U.S.

gospeed81

iTrader: (51)

I've been purposely trying not to weigh in on this issue, but it's dead week before finals so I need a distraction.

My wife is a naturalized citizen. She had been a legal immigrant, along with her whole family who went through a decade long process that split them up for the majority of that time. Her father came over with her oldest sister when she was a teen with a serious heart condition that the doctors in Houston knew how to treat. They both got their citizenship first, then my mother in law, their youngest daughter, and then my wife and her brother coming over last. They were both a year or two out of high school and could stay there longer, and my wife had actually just been accepted to UNAM, which is hard to get into without connections, when she was allowed to emigrate.

Since arriving the whole family has done nothing besides work hard, save, and take every opportunity they've been given by the horns. I consider myself a motivated individual, and I feel like a spoiled slacker next to them. They pay taxes, and always have, and don't send money to anyone back home. My father in law still owns the house they built in the hills just outside the Distrito Federal in Mexico City, and maintains it, as well as providing when we visit for the family members that are residing there.



Do they appreciate illegal immigrants coming over here, refusing any hint of aculturization?

No. They still hold onto their language, their culture, and their traditions, but accept our laws, our way of life, and have almost completely mastered our language as well. They certain appreciate the way of life our country has provided them, and while not becoming exactly like us, they have identified themselves as american, and respect what is now their homeland as well.


Do they appreciate illegal immigrants not paying taxes?

Hell no. They are irate, not about the taxes they are required to pay, but the fact that a portion of what they pay supports those that refuse to. One of our personal pet peeves here in Houston are the multitude of folks driving illegally, who don't pay registration (road tax) and are not only clogging up our city's roadways without aiding the growth and construction, but are also causing accidents that they get away scott-free from, and are carrying no insurance to cover the damage they cause. There are stories monthly about loss of life in similar instances. And don't even get my wife started on all the free health care illegals have access to when we bust our butts at work just to keep our $400/month plan.


While these are the major issues, there are many other things amongst the current crop of illegal immigrants that tend to rub not only this white country boy the wrong way, but my Hispanic in-laws as well.

Yes, this country was built with immigrants, but they were immigrants that WANTED to be american, that longed for the opportunities here, and to become citizens.

Come to Houston and you'll realize very quickly that it's a hostile takeover. I've worked next to these guys, know their language and culture and accept them as fellow ser humanos, but I see that they are here not to contribute a their labor and culture to the melting pot, but to form their own little country inside of our own. Unwilling to accept our ways or even respect our laws, and with no obligation to stay, be responsible, or even to take part in the democratic voice of our republic.


While I agree with y8s on the fact that anyone, regardless of apparent race or nationality, is innocent until proven guilty, and afforded every human right under the sun regardless of citizenship, I can not argue with a move that has finally been made to actually enforce our laws.

Arizona did not write a new law, they only enabled, and obligated, their local LEOs check and enforce the laws of our country. This law is based on suspicion. Yes, suspicion will be based on racial profiling, but it's not about race, it's about nationality. And racial profiling is actually one of the most useful tools used in law enforcement. Arizona also pushed another fitting law last week about political correctness being taught in their curriculum. This is fitting as I laugh and think about how news reporters tiptoe around saying someone is a certain race in a report of a crime. People make the insinuations and generalizations, law enforcement is based on facts, and you can't tie their hands behind their backs.

I can have my car searched if the officer has reason to suspect I am hiding something. His training and instincts can form this reason in any manner of ways, but he is a professional (or should be) and I will submit as long as it doesn't violate my rights. In the same manner, if an officer pulls someone over and has reason to doubt their status, he should investigate.


Now, there are several problems with this policy I feel Arizona failed to address. We have no standard manner of identification for immigrants, or even all citizens. Immigration status is defined in such a plethora of ways that some folks, including guys I study with, would need to carry a friggin' file folder to prove they are supposed to be here. Many people feel that a driver's license is sufficient, but these vary by state, and there are ways around this. Also, as Scott illustrated, there is quite a bit of identity theft going on. I know as a construction foreman we hired guys named Jose, who everyone called Ivan in at the site, and whose face was a little rounder and darker than his ID. It happens, but in Texas we haven't started asking questions yet.

This brings up the next real problem with this enforcement policy: It's not attached to a comprehensive reform of the whole system. A few other things must happen in order to really solve the problem, and status checks are the tail end of the problem. It's akin to following around a dog with diarrhea, napkin in hand, instead of changing the kibble.

The immigration process needs to be streamlined. It's currently very laggy, and innefficient, as well as error prone. Every time we return from travel Homeland Security pulls my wife into another room with two AR-15 armed soldiers in front of the door. I don't get to go in there, but I know she comes out crying every time. This is all about a green card she turned into the Greenspoint Immigration & Naturalization Services office that they never noted as returned. Every. Single. Time. Same questions, same process. I know she turned it in because I dropped her off. She got her citizenship when we were still friends, about 2 months before we started going out.

Also, you have to kill demand for the illegal labor market. Penalize employers, and really enforce THAT, instead of making a token raid once a month. Unfortunately this is the one part of immigration reform that will never happen. There's simply too much money and clout involved. If employers have to verify that they are legal, and with a tax ID number, then they are contributing to our society, and the channels of illegal immigration will quickly close on their own.


That said, do I support the backlash over this law? NO.

Look at the tactics, the arguments, and the motivation, and tell me if these are people that want to be a part of our way of life and deserve it, or if they just want to maintain the status quo...

hustler

iTrader: (6)

wordlyphe


http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h2499/show

Scared yet?
step 1: win election
step 2: secure illegal alien motivated vote
step 3: manipulate financial markets
step 4: ride on backs of tax-paying middle class
step 5: gerrymander with PR, with mandated bi-annual vote until pass
step 6: watch me marry my GF and ride on her PHD to get me into Australia

hustler

iTrader: (6)

Its going to be tough to do with mandated, taxed health coverage and the increasing federal minimum wage.

gospeed81

iTrader: (51)

Can you adopt me and take me with you?

I'll hold your hand through your Holden build when we get there...

Braineack

iTrader: (62)

Our Constitution doesn't cite this actually.

It clearly states in the Constitution the fact that NOT anyone, regardless of apparent race or nationality, is innocent until proven guilty...specifically illegal aliens that aren't protected under our Constitution.

gospeed81

iTrader: (51)

change "is" to "should be"

My sentiment remains valid, because up until the point you have proven otherwise, the suspected is still assumed to be a citizen, and reserved these rights.

Braineack

iTrader: (62)

Hey Cheif, can I arrest these guys?

What are they doing?

I found them sneaking on a plane, they have bombs strapped to their chests, they are yelling ji-had and have no documents that prove they are from the US.

Let them go, they haven't done anything, haven't you read the Constitution, it applies to everyone in the world! In fact, you can never arrest anyone ever again, so just don't ask.

Rennkafer

iTrader: (3)

I was under the impression all legal immigrants/long term visitors have a resident alien (green) card... is that not the case? My wife carries hers with her everywhere she goes.

18psi

iTrader: (76)

They sound like upstanding citizens that haven't done anything wrong

miataspeed2005

iTrader: (3)

Yes your correct, but once you become a citizen you don't have a resident card any more. I think it says it on the card or in the envelope that it comes in that you must carry your resident card with you at all times.I know I carry mine every where I go, and soon when I get some free time I'll finally become a US citizen.

y8s

iTrader: (8)

that's pretty clear intent. similarly if you saw a van full of hispanic looking guys driving around near a border with more people in the van than seats, that is plenty of probable cause to go after them. is that racial profiling? sure, but in the context it makes sense.

walking down the street being "brown" does not demonstrate intent or criminal behavior in and of itself. if the AZ cops plan to stop every latino on the street, they are misapplying their authority (and wasting time and taxpayer money, one might argue).

Braineack

iTrader: (62)

I don't believe they will be.

There first must be legitimate reason to make contact with the person, and then they are allowed to ask for papers (which are now required to be one hand at all times) to prove they are in fact a citizen. Give off your SSN number, visa, or what have you and all will be well.

This law was in response to the inability of the federal government to do it's job. IT allows local police and judges the authority to do something about the EPIDEMIC.

Reasons like the following:

1. 83 % of Warrants for MURDER in Phoenix Arizona are FOR ILLEGAL ALIENS
2. 75 % of those on the most wanted list in Los Angeles, Phoenix, Albuquerque are ILLEGAL ALIENS
3. 40.1 % of all inmates in Arizona detention centers are Mexican Nationals here ILLEGALLY
4. 63 % of cited / stopped Drivers in Arizona have NO License, NO Insurance, and NO Registration for the vehicle of that 63 %, over 97 % are ILLEGAL ALIENS
5. 34% plus of Arizona students in grades 1-12 are illegal aliens and 24% plus are non-English speaking
6. 43 % of all Food Stamps issued are to illegal aliens
7. 41 % of all Unemployment Checks in the United States are to illegal aliens
8. 58 % of all Welfare payments in the United States are issued to illegal aliens
9. Less than 2 % of illegal aliens are picking crops but 41 % are on welfare
10. Over 70% of the U.S. annual population growth (and over 90% of CA, FL, and NY) results from immigration
11. The estimated profit to U.S. corporations and businesses employing illegal aliens in 2005 was more than 2.36 trillion
12. 62 % of all "undocumented immigrants" in the U.S. are working for cash and not paying taxes, predominantly illegal aliens are working without a green card
13. The cost of immigration to the American taxpayer in 1997 (last known calculation by Professor Donald Huddle, Rice University) was a NET (after subtracting taxes immigrants pay), $70 Billion per year.
14. The lifetime fiscal impact (taxes paid minus services used) for the average illegal alien is $55,000 cost to the American taxpayer in a 5-year span. You personally pay $11,000 every year to illegal aliens.
15. Between 2000 and 2005, 4.1 million immigrant workers arrived in the U.S., accounting for 86% of the net increase in the total number of employed persons (16 & older), the highest share ever recorded in the U.S. Of the 4.1 million, between 1.4 and 2.7 million are estimated to be illegal aliens. Also, between 2000 and 2005, the number of young (16 to 34) native-born men employed declined by 1.7 million - at the same time, the number of new male immigrant workers increased by 1.9 million.

2006 (First Quarter) INS/FBI Statistical Report on Undocumented Immigrants

buffon01

iTrader: (9)

Oh come one you know that if you're ~5' and you look like youre name could be pancho, you're *** will be put in question.

How does an illegal immigrat, without legal documents, get unemployment benefits???

Braineack

iTrader: (62)

Reported on April 22, 2010

Del Rio Sector - Border Patrol agents arrested an illegal alien from Mexico near Uvalde, Texas. At the time of his arrest, the subject was in possession of a .357 Magnum caliber revolver and ammunition.

Marfa Sector - Border Patrol agents arrested nine subjects hiding in the brush near Sanderson, Texas.

During the arrest, agents also seized 529 pounds of marijuana, a shotgun with 24 rounds of ammunition and other equipment that had been discovered near the subjects. An investigation was initiated to determine if the weapon and other property were stolen from a hunting camp in the vicinity.

Rio Grande Valley Sector - Border Patrol agents arrested an illegal alien from Mexico and seized 1,195 pounds of abandoned marijuana near Hidalgo, Texas. While following signs of illicit activity in the area, agents discovered the narcotics hidden in the brush. Agents searched the area and discovered the subject also hiding in the brush.

Tucson Sector - Border Patrol agents arrested an illegal alien from Guatemala near Tucson, Arizona. Records checks revealed the subject had an active arrest warrant for molestation of a minor in the state of Florida, and had previously been removed from the United States.

Tucson Sector - Border Patrol agents seized 1,238 pounds of marijuana after encountering a group of approximately 30 subjects near San Miguel, Arizona. Upon contact with the agents, the subjects abandoned the marijuana and absconded into Mexico.

Tucson Sector - Border Patrol agents arrested an illegal alien from Mexico near Tucson, Arizona. Records checks revealed the subject had a prior conviction for a sex offense against a child in the state of Indiana, and had previously been removed from the United States.

Reported on April 23, 2010

Rio Grande Valley Sector - Border Patrol agents arrested an illegal alien from Guatemala near Sarita, Texas. Records checks revealed the subject was a Mara Salvatrucha 13 (MS-13) gang member and had previously been removed from the United States.

Rio Grande Valley Sector - Border Patrol agents seized 1,406 pounds of marijuana and a 1995 GMC Yukon near Hidalgo, Texas. Agents observed a vehicle heading south toward the Rio Grande River and subsequently being loaded with the suspected narcotics. When agents encountered the vehicle traveling northbound, the driver and a passenger abandoned the vehicle and absconded on foot. A search of the vehicle revealed the narcotics.

Rio Grande Valley Sector - Border Patrol agents seized 1,167 pounds of marijuana and a 2000 Ford Explorer near Los Ebanos, Texas. Agents observed the vehicle leaving the Rio Grande River area at a high rate of speed and discovered the vehicle abandoned at a ranch. A subsequent search of the vehicle revealed themarijuana inside.

Tucson Sector - Border Patrol agents arrested an illegal alien from Mexico near Douglas, Arizona. Record checks revealed the subject had a prior conviction for statutory rape in the state of California and had been previously removed from the United States.

Tucson Sector - Border Patrol agents seized 21.65 pounds of cocaine and arrested two nationals of Mexico at the traffic checkpoint near Tubac, Arizona. The subjects presented themselves for inspection and a Border Patrol canine alerted to the vehicle. A search of the vehicle revealed the cocaine hidden inside.

Tucson Sector - Border Patrol agents arrested an illegal alien from El Salvador near Tucson, Arizona. During processing the subject admitted to being an MS-13 gang member. Records checks revealed he had an extensivecriminal history, to include a prior conviction for carrying a concealed weapon. The subject had also been previously removed from the United States.

Reported on April 24, 2010

El Centro Sector - Border Patrol agents arrested an illegal alien from Mexico near Indio, California. Records checks revealed the subject had a prior felony conviction for attempted sexual assault on a child in the state of Colorado and had previously been removed from the United States.

El Paso Sector - Border Patrol agents arrested an illegal alien from Mexico near Las Cruces, New Mexico. The subject had an active arrest warrant forcriminal sexual contact with a child under 13 issued in the state of New Mexico.

Laredo Sector - Border Patrol agents seized 1,953 pounds of marijuana, three grams of cocaine, a tractor-trailer, and arrested a national of Mexico at the traffic checkpoint near Laredo, Texas. The subject presented himself for inspection and a Border Patrol canine alerted to the trailer. A subsequent search of the trailer revealed themarijuana concealed inside. The cocaine was located on the subject.

Miami Sector - Border Patrol agents arrested an illegal alien from Guatemala near Palm Beach Gardens, Florida. Records checks revealed the subject had an active arrest warrant for forcible rape of a child with the use of a weapon issued in the state of Massachusetts. The subject had also previously been removed from the United States.

Tucson Sector - Border Patrol agents arrested an illegal alien from Mexico near Nolia, Arizona. Records checks revealed the subject had an active arrest warrant for two counts of rape issued in the state of Oregon. The subject had also been previously removed from the United States.



Reported on April 25, 2010

Buffalo Sector - Border Patrol agents arrested an illegal alien from Honduras in Rochester, New York. Records checks revealed the subject had an active arrest warrant for attempted murder, assault, and reckless endangerment issued in the state of Maryland.

Rio Grande Valley Sector - Border Patrol agents seized 1,238 pounds of marijuana, a tractor-trailer, and arrested a United States Citizen (USC) at the traffic checkpoint near Falfurrias, Texas. The subject presented himself for inspection and a Border Patrol canine alerted to the trailer. A search using non-intrusive inspection technology revealed anomalies in the trailer. Agents then conducted a physical search of the trailer and discovered the contraband.

Rio Grande Valley Sector - Border Patrol agents seized 1,469 pounds of marijuana and a 1999 pickup truck near Los Ebanos, Texas. Agents found the vehicle abandoned near the Rio Grande River and located the marijuana in the bed of the truck.

San Diego Sector - Border Patrol agents arrested an illegal alien from Mexico near Chula Vista, California. During processing, the subject admitted to being an MS-13 gang member. Records checks revealed he had an extensive criminal history, including a felony conviction for robbery, and had been previously removed from the United States.

Tucson Sector - Border Patrol agents arrested an illegal alien from Mexico near Casa Grande, Arizona. Records checks revealed the subject was a Sureņo 13 gang member and had been previously removed from the United States.



Reported on April 26, 2010

El Paso Sector - Border Patrol agents arrested an illegal alien from Mexico near Santa Teresa, New Mexico. Records checks revealed the subject had a prior conviction forcriminal sexual penetration of a minor and kidnapping in the state of New Mexico, and had been previously removed from the United States.

El Paso Sector - Border Patrol agents arrested an illegal alien from Mexico near Sunland Park, New Mexico. Records checks revealed the subject was a convicted sex offender and had been previously removed from the United States.

Tucson Sector - Border Patrol agents arrested an illegal alien from Mexico near Douglas, Arizona. Records checks revealed the subject had a prior felony conviction for homicide in the state of Arizona and had been previously removed from the United States.

Tucson Sector - Border Patrol agents arrested an illegal alien from Mexico near Nogales, Arizona. Records checks revealed the subject had prior convictions for theft and a sexual offense against a child in the state of Washington. The subject had also been previously removed from the United States.

Reported on April 27, 2010

El Paso Sector - Border Patrol agents arrested a USC who illegally entered the United States near El Paso, Texas, avoiding the port of entry. During the investigation to determine the subject's citizenship, records checks revealed he was a registered sex offender with two active arrest warrants for burglary and theft issued in the state of California.

Tucson Sector - Border Patrol agents seized 2,107 pounds of marijuana and a 2003 Chevrolet Suburban near Casa Grande, Arizona. The vehicle was discovered abandoned, and a subsequent search revealed the marijuana inside.

Tucson Sector - A Border Patrol agent was assaulted by an illegal alien from Mexico near Hickiwan, Arizona. During his arrest, the subject became combative and attacked the agent. After an initial hand-to-hand engagement, the agent was able to deploy his Border Patrol issued oleoresin capsicum spray to subdue the subject. The subject was taken into custody without further incident.



Reported on April 28, 2010

El Centro Sector - Border Patrol agents arrested an illegal alien from Mexico near Indio, California. Records checks revealed the subject was a Border Brothers gang member, and had prior convictions for carjacking with a firearm and unlawful sexual contact with a minor in the state of California. The subject had also been previously removed from the United States.

Rio Grande Valley Sector - Border Patrol agents seized 1,245 pounds of marijuana and a 1999 Chevrolet Silverado near Los Ebanos, Texas. Upon observing responding agents, the occupants abandoned the vehicle and absconded near the Rio Grande River. A search of the vehicle revealed the marijuana inside.

Tucson Sector - Border Patrol agents arrested an illegal alien from Mexico near San Miguel, Arizona. Records checks revealed the subject had a prior conviction for involuntary manslaughter and indecency with a child in the state of Texas. The subject had also been previously removed from the United States.

Tucson Sector - Border Patrol agents assisted local law enforcement officers with a 911 distress call near Avra Valley, Arizona. The group of 43 illegal aliens was left near two abandoned load vehicles. Agents, along with air assets from the Customs and Border Protection Office of Air and Marine, located the group, including the subject who placed the emergency call

y8s

iTrader: (8)

Scott, those stats are all well and good, but those people are already known.

You enforce a few of those 15 items seriously and you start adding deterrence to illegal immigration.

A little reverse extradition and taxpayer status goes a long way.