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Old 07-17-2012, 12:57 PM   #2421
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I wonder what would happen to the deficit if government got smaller? I wonder what would happen if Congress had 12 year term limits and lived by the same Social Security and insurance rules of the proletariat?
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Old 07-17-2012, 01:10 PM   #2422
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US FDA approves first drug shown to reduce risk of HIV infection | Society | guardian.co.uk

HIV...being defeated by the evil Donald Rumsfeld and Capitalism.

Muuuwahahahaha.
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Old 07-17-2012, 03:22 PM   #2423
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Originally Posted by cordycord View Post
I wonder what would happen to the deficit if government got smaller? I wonder what would happen if Congress had 12 year term limits and lived by the same Social Security and insurance rules of the proletariat?

good luck.



There's more to the size/burden of gov't.


Recipe for Growth and Prosperity (There are five major policy areas, each of which counts for 20 percent of a nation’s grade.):
  1. Size of government
  2. Regulation
  3. Monetary Policy
  4. Trade
  5. Rule of Law/Property Rights

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Old 07-17-2012, 03:56 PM   #2424
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Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
There's more to the size/burden of gov't.


Recipe for Growth and Prosperity (There are five major policy areas, each of which counts for 20 percent of a nationís grade.):
  1. Size of government
  2. Regulation
  3. Monetary Policy
  4. Trade
  5. Rule of Law/Property Rights
What are we supposed to interpret from that graph? Living standards were better in the 1800s? 1910s, '20s, '30s?

Or are you a closet big government guy and you want us to make the connection that as the "burden of government" grew between the late 1800s and the mid 1900s, the country experienced impressive gains in prosperity?

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Old 07-17-2012, 04:09 PM   #2425
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http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/defa...ssets/hist.pdf

Pages 349 and 350
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Old 07-17-2012, 04:56 PM   #2426
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Originally Posted by Scrappy Jack View Post
What are we supposed to interpret from that graph? Living standards were better in the 1800s? 1910s, '20s, '30s?
I think it was more along the lines of something like that the burden of government spending in Europe used to be very small. And that government spending used to consume only about 10 percent of European economic output in the 1800s and less than 15 percent of GDP as late as 1913.

And it was during this period of small government that Europe became a rich continent. Back during this time that most European nations didn’t have income taxes, so there wasn’t big government to misallocate economic output, and there weren’t high tax rates to discourage economic output.

So Europe went from agricultural poverty to middle class prosperity and since we know how Europe became rich then we should know that a return to small government and free markets will enable Europe to again enjoy rapid growth.


you didn't get that????
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Old 07-17-2012, 05:18 PM   #2427
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So, the trend over a span of roughly 90 years, ranging from the invention of the telephone until just after the launching of the first dog into space, was for government expenditure as a % of GDP to rise at an approximately linear rate, and this curve has been roughly identical for the US and most European nations. The major outlier to this trend has been Japan, which roughly tracked the US and Europe until some time around the end of the Imperial era, at which point GDP began to grow at an exponential rate, causing government spending as a % of GDP to appear to decline.

I literally have no idea what point we are supposed to infer from this.
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Old 07-17-2012, 06:00 PM   #2428
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Originally Posted by olderguy View Post
Pages 349 and 350 of the PDF or of the document (pages 353 - 354 of the PDF)?

The former appear to show that Obama has been reducing the total government expenditures as a percentage of GDP from the time he took office and that 2011 was only a couple of percentage points above where Reagan and G. H. W. Bush were running things.

Sooo... am I to infer that Obama is doing a good job of bringing government expenditures as a percentage of GDP down towards where Reagan and the first Bush had them and that is a good thing?
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Old 07-18-2012, 01:35 PM   #2429
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Hey, if people are willing to give you money, if people will give you the money, that’s fine.

You know, the Green Jobs, Green New York, between us, a lot of it is bullshit… even if it’s bullshit, I think as long as people are working, that’s not bull, you know what I mean?
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Old 07-18-2012, 01:44 PM   #2430
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
So, the trend over a span of roughly 90 years, ranging from the invention of the telephone until just after the launching of the first dog into space, was for government expenditure as a % of GDP to rise at an approximately linear rate, and this curve has been roughly identical for the US and most European nations. The major outlier to this trend has been Japan, which roughly tracked the US and Europe until some time around the end of the Imperial era, at which point GDP began to grow at an exponential rate, causing government spending as a % of GDP to appear to decline.

I literally have no idea what point we are supposed to infer from this.
Small, constrained federal governments equals rising personal prosperity.
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Old 07-18-2012, 02:51 PM   #2431
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cordycord View Post
Small, constrained federal governments equals rising personal prosperity.
lolol@the idea of the post-1900s fed gov't being small or constrained.
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Old 07-18-2012, 02:57 PM   #2432
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more evidence of the laffer curve:

Quote:
Thousands are weighing anchor and fleeing with their gin palaces to quiet corners of the Mediterranean to escape a tax evasion crackdown – part of efforts by the government of Mario Monti, the prime minister, to tackle Italy’s €1.9 trillion public debt. …in the ports and marinas they are going after the owners of luxury yachts. Uniformed officers of the Guardia di Finanza, or tax police, are performing on-the-spot checks, boarding boats and checking owners’ details against their tax records. …The unwelcome attention has led many yacht owners to flee Italy’s marinas for friendlier foreign ports, from Corsica and the Cote d’Azur in the west to Croatia, Slovenia, Montenegro and Greece in the east. Others are heading southwards, to Malta and Tunisia – where they can access their boats on low-cost budget flights from Italy for a fraction of the tax bill they might otherwise face.
Quote:
Around 30,000 yachts have fled Italy this year, costing €200 million in lost revenue from mooring fees, port services and fuel sales, according to Assomarinas, the Italian Association of Marinas. “We’ve lost 10 to 15 per cent of our regular customers,” said Roberto Perocchio, the president of Assomarinas. “This is the worst crisis in Italian boating history. The authorities are using scare tactics and creating a climate of fear.” …Plans for a further 30,000 new berths have been put on hold. Business is down by more than a third in many marinas, with some half empty compared to last summer. “We’ve lost 40 boats in the last few months, all between 20 and 25 metres long,” said Giovanni Sorci, director of a marina at Rimini, on the Adriatic coast. “Most went to Slovenia – in fact it is so popular that there’s now barely a berth to be had there. …At Porto Rotondo in Sardinia, Giacomo Pileri, the general manager of a 700-berth marina, said at least 150 boats had fled to nearby Corsica. …A steep new tax of up to €700 per day on the largest yachts mooring in Italian ports, introduced by the Monti government in December, was watered down in March to exclude foreign-owned boats. But it has further fuelled the exodus of Italian boats abroad.

It's always fun to hurt the middle-class in an effort to "save" the middle-class.


even more:

Quote:
Italians spooked by rising car taxes and highly publicized tax fraud spot checks cut back their purchases of Fiat’s high-end sports car brands Ferrari and Maserati in the first quarter of 2012, an industry body said on Tuesday. Ferrari sales slumped 51.5 percent, in Italy, and Maserati sales plummeted by 70 percent, said Italian car dealers group Federauto in a statement. Prime Minister Mario Monti’s government has stepped up its fight on tax evasion with spot checks on supercar drivers, as well as higher taxes on large cars. “These figures show how the choices made by the government are literally terrorizing potential clients,” said Federauto chairman Filippo Pavan Bernacchi.
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Old 07-18-2012, 03:06 PM   #2433
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Old 07-18-2012, 03:38 PM   #2434
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Did you know that you can use your credit card to make a donation to the U.S. federal government to assist in paying down the publicly held debt?

Last year Americans donated over $7 million:



I find this...curious.
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Old 07-18-2012, 03:43 PM   #2435
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Originally Posted by Scrappy Jack View Post
I totally baited you in to posting that.





But then you have rates slashed, stimulus passed, accounting rules tweaked and lots of other accomodative practices implemented.
Funny I slowed my mortgage payoff and started buying stock mutual funds heavily in 2008 all the way through the trough of the Dow in the 6000's its now hovering close to 13000. Mortgage has been refinanced at a ridiculously low rate.
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Old 07-18-2012, 03:57 PM   #2436
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good luck.


Interesting how discarding the effects of wars the quality of life and opportunity for so many people was drastically improved over this time period of increased government. Labor standard were improved working incomes rose, some natural resources and environments were protected, Infrastructure enabling great business opportunity and success was created, the US education system rose to be one of the best in the world. Government laid the seeds of technology which private industry took and grew with great success.

Now the right wing thinks the solution to all our problems is to return society back to the 1800ís

Bob
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Old 07-18-2012, 05:24 PM   #2437
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cordycord View Post
Small, constrained federal governments equals rising personal prosperity.
Ah, yes. China, for instance, is a great example of a country in which the standard of living and personal prosperity has skyrocketed over the past few decades, because of a small, constrained government.

No, wait a sec. China's government isn't small and constrained at all. In fact, it's precisely the OPPOSITE of small and constrained.

Why, look at this! Over the past 30 years, government expenditure, export revenue, and private consumption in China have all grown at roughly proportionate rates!



Obviously rising government expenditure causes increased exports and private consumption.

No, wait. That's not right.

Maybe it's wrong to draw overly simplistic cause-and-effect conclusions about complex economic systems?
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Old 07-18-2012, 07:43 PM   #2438
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Nice video on the Unions. Wow, just wow.

So what's the deal with the Arizona sheriff (I think) claiming that Obama's birth certificate is a forgery?
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Old 07-18-2012, 11:37 PM   #2439
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
Ah, yes. China, for instance, is a great example of a country in which the standard of living and personal prosperity has skyrocketed over the past few decades, because of a small, constrained government.

No, wait a sec. China's government isn't small and constrained at all. In fact, it's precisely the OPPOSITE of small and constrained.

Why, look at this! Over the past 30 years, government expenditure, export revenue, and private consumption in China have all grown at roughly proportionate rates!



Obviously rising government expenditure causes increased exports and private consumption.

No, wait. That's not right.

Maybe it's wrong to draw overly simplistic cause-and-effect conclusions about complex economic systems?
You're right--I knew it was an overly-simplified statement, but it's one that I think applies to the here and now of the United States.

Regarding China, have you ever been there? I've done business there for the past few years, and could tell you stories. Suffice it to say that the one-party government is using Capitalism to rapidly grow their economy, and their own interests in a laissez faire manner.

However, on the "big government" side, graft, corruption, poverty, sickening (literally) pollution, boondoggles of mind-boggling proportions, state-sponsored spying and theft on an epic level--are all happening in direct control of the government. Sounds like Washington, right?

Freedom is not the same word there, and the caste system in Communist China is alive and well. Well, they can get away with it and Washington can't because their economy is growing, their taxes are lower, their government doesn't run up the debt like ours, etceteras.

So this comparison is as big as the country itself. Suffice it to say this is a short answer to a long comparison.

Also, these and other reasons are why I no longer do business with China.
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Old 07-19-2012, 01:30 PM   #2440
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I usually don't like these, but this one seemed spot on.
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