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Old 02-27-2016, 11:13 AM   #61
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I figure that you should subtract 0.2 to account for the video lage difference since this us at 12v. It's at 43psi.

I wouldn't take this as gospel, since the equipment used for this isn't meant for this type of test, so I'm waiting on the results fr the other shop before I change anything on my own tune. My car runs quite well, except it sometimes idles lean after I've been driving for over an hour.
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Old 02-27-2016, 01:08 PM   #62
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I'm telling you, just do the AFR test, that's what really matters.

Try a number of dead times, .6, .8, and 1.0. Multiply by .9 and/or 1.1, and you should see a 10% decrease or increase respectively in AFR.

Did this check on the dyno yesterday before I did any tuning, I had a 14.0 idle afr, multiplied by 1.1, and this 10% increase netted me a 12.6 afr, or 10% richer. This was with FIC 725cc injectors and a dead time of 1.0. Later on, I was at 11.2 afr at WOT, when I wanted 11.5. 11.2/11.5=.97, so I multiplied that section of the fuel table by .97, and this netted me my desired 11.5 afr on the next pull. This is how it should be, and dead time otherwise doesn't really matter. These FICs are basically the same injectors as your FF units, so I'm not sure how they have a .63 dead time.
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Old 02-27-2016, 04:15 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nigelt View Post
I figure that you should subtract 0.2 to account for the video lage difference since this us at 12v. It's at 43psi.

I wouldn't take this as gospel, since the equipment used for this isn't meant for this type of test, so I'm waiting on the results fr the other shop before I change anything on my own tune. My car runs quite well, except it sometimes idles lean after I've been driving for over an hour.
I also get the lean idle after running for a while, stopping to pay the toll after riding on the turnpike for 50 miles will do it. I don't go lean enough to stall, but it will surge a bit till it levels back out. I have no idea why that happens, not due to MAT, though I don't know too much more.
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Old 03-06-2016, 10:23 AM   #64
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I've just sent an injector off for linearity and latency testing at a different shop, so it will be interesting to see whether the results differ from the dead times we've been working from.
ANY updates?
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Old 03-06-2016, 10:56 AM   #65
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the .63 deadtime is bogus as ****.
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Old 03-06-2016, 11:11 AM   #66
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My uncles I.D. 1000s are 1.15ms, lol .63 is half. That's why my table is in the 130s at full throttle. Is probably also why the car wants to die at low rpms
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Old 03-06-2016, 12:23 PM   #67
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I researched a little and some people at the Ford Mustang forums think the deadtime is around .94ms
I'm going to try that when I get home. I made a voltage compensation curve based on Aidandj's values for. 94ms deadtime:

10 volts = 164%
11 volts= 139%
12 volts= 123%
13 volts= 102.6%
14 volts= 90.2%
15 volts= 78%

I'll try it tonight and let you guys know how it runs.
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Old 03-06-2016, 03:14 PM   #68
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the .63 deadtime is bogus as ****.
I'm getting closer to 1.05, I'll be keeping that as I move forward with this NA.
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Old 03-06-2016, 03:17 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curly View Post
I'm getting closer to 1.05, I'll be keeping that as I move forward with this NA.
I've found 1.1ms to be the most stable for my set.

.63 was hilariously bad.
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Old 03-06-2016, 03:40 PM   #70
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i would use 1.2ms like the FIC charts suggest.

im assuming .63ms is the opening time, and they didnt factor in closing time as well.
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Old 03-06-2016, 03:41 PM   #71
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ANY updates?
The testing is done and I should have the results tomorrow.

Sorry for the dead times being probably wrong, I had two injectors tested a year ago, and that's what came back, but everything about the experience with that (well known) shop was terrible. It's possible they just made it up. I should have had another shop re-test long ago!
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Old 03-06-2016, 08:23 PM   #72
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I just changed a few settings and tried 1.15 for dead time. The car seems to run better. I had to lower the idle cells from 96 to 58, the rest of the table needed tweaking but not as much.
My voltage values are:
8v=243%
9.6v=172%
11.2v=129.8%
12.8v=104.8%
14.4v=87.1%
16v=73.5%

Runs pretty well except it still wants to die when coming to a stop. This may be a slow IAC valve problem and not the injectors.

Last edited by btabor; 03-06-2016 at 09:37 PM.
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Old 03-06-2016, 09:18 PM   #73
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I'm guessing you mean 1.15?

Off topic btabor but are you using the initial value table? Bring your dash pot to near zero and increase the table until it hangs only 1-200rpm high before settling to your target.

Also it bugs me that you don't have a 100% cell for your voltage curve.
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Old 03-06-2016, 11:28 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by nigelt View Post
The testing is done and I should have the results tomorrow.

Sorry for the dead times being probably wrong, I had two injectors tested a year ago, and that's what came back, but everything about the experience with that (well known) shop was terrible. It's possible they just made it up. I should have had another shop re-test long ago!
I remember, didn't they lose some of your injectors or something?
I still love my set, I just use ego at idle. I am curious to see what the new numbers are, even though it will mean retuning again.
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Old 03-07-2016, 01:05 PM   #75
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Damn we've got some smart people on this forum. Test results are in, and you guys totally called it. 1.12ms at 13.2V. Cats for everyone! I appreciate your patience and understanding, I know some of you have these injectors for quite a while now with wrong dead times.





Also, the testing I do on each injector is using stoddard solvent as a test fluid - the light mineral oil component of WD-40. I've been applying a conversion factor of .86 to get the flow rate for gasoline. Based on comparing these test results to my own, I should be using .895 as the conversion factor. You guys should multiply the flow rates on your card by 1.04 to get the static rate.

Once I crunch all the numbers, I'll start a fresh thread with all my test data to date as a definitive guide to this injector type.
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Old 03-07-2016, 01:07 PM   #76
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FWIW if you aren't bench testing with the wiring loom of the car, and a megasquirt the deadtimes won't be totally exact. The injector circuitry and length of wire are all part of the deadtime.
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Old 03-07-2016, 01:07 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nigelt View Post
Damn we've got some smart people on this forum. Test results are in, and you guys totally called it. 1.12ms at 13.2V. Cats for everyone! I appreciate your patience and understanding, I know some of you have these injectors for quite a while now with wrong dead times.



Also, the testing I do on each injector is using stoddard solvent as a test fluid - the light mineral oil component of WD-40. I've been applying a conversion factor of .86 to get the flow rate for gasoline. Based on comparing these test results to my own, I should be using .895 as the conversion factor. You guys should multiply the flow rates on your card by 1.04 to get the static rate.

Once I crunch all the numbers, I'll start a fresh thread with all my test data to date as a definitive guide to this injector type.

Price is right rules. Did I win?

Thanks for keeping us updated!
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Old 03-07-2016, 01:24 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by aidandj View Post
FWIW if you aren't bench testing with the wiring loom of the car, and a megasquirt the deadtimes won't be totally exact. The injector circuitry and length of wire are all part of the deadtime.
Yeah, and this is why you are supposed to set the megasqirt voltage ADC offset so it matches voltage you actually measure at the injectors.

At least that's how I have it done.

Nigelt, would it be possible to test these injectors deadtime at 4/5 bar? It's kinda gonna be necessary for anyone wanting more than ~220whp on e85 with these injectors.

Thanks for the data!
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Old 03-07-2016, 02:03 PM   #79
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Already done! Posting soon.
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Old 03-07-2016, 04:19 PM   #80
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any difference between the harness and test bench isn't going to be measureable without a calibrated scope, at that point it's all tuning. I'm using 1.1 currently and it seems much better.
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