Piston rings and Rods
#1
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Piston rings and Rods
Some background first. I've got a 96 with 63,000 miles on it which I bought when it had 59,000 miles and I'm pretty sure the previous owner was very ---- about keeping the car in good condition even though he never made one single mod to the car.
I've faced cooling issues ever since I first bought the car; in fact I've already blown 2 headgaskets . So far, I've installed a PWR radiator and the FCM fan shroud (shitty investments if you ask me). I've already ordered the new Qmax system and I figure I will be getting my kit by mid April. I've also already ordered and I'm waiting to receive the new Autonexion hood (this wasn't so much due to the fact that I thought it would improve my engine temps but because I had a small accident which affected the original OEM hood).
I turboed my car a while ago (I think it was the end of November if my memory serves me well) and can finally control at what temp my fans come in.
I was at the shop today and my tuner suggested that we get some piston rings for the car when we open the engine to correct a small oil leak it has. I decided to follow his advice on my own terms. I'm going to change the rings and get some rods when the Qmax is here (mid April). I went back and reread samnavy's thread on his rebuild and got some ideas (thank you) but I still need some assistance.
Let me state what my plans are:
1) New piston rings
2) Rods
3) ARP studs?
4) Metal headgasket
And I need assistance as to where to buy the different items mentioned and also specifications (in the case of the piston rings).
I really would prefer not to change pistons since I don't think there's any damage in my case but if I had to I wouldn't want to buy forged ones.
I consider this project more like getting some safety margin than anything else. I don't see this becoming a major engine overhaul.
BTW, the head was slightly ported about 1 month ago and they installed new valve seals.
Thanks,
Rafa
I've faced cooling issues ever since I first bought the car; in fact I've already blown 2 headgaskets . So far, I've installed a PWR radiator and the FCM fan shroud (shitty investments if you ask me). I've already ordered the new Qmax system and I figure I will be getting my kit by mid April. I've also already ordered and I'm waiting to receive the new Autonexion hood (this wasn't so much due to the fact that I thought it would improve my engine temps but because I had a small accident which affected the original OEM hood).
I turboed my car a while ago (I think it was the end of November if my memory serves me well) and can finally control at what temp my fans come in.
I was at the shop today and my tuner suggested that we get some piston rings for the car when we open the engine to correct a small oil leak it has. I decided to follow his advice on my own terms. I'm going to change the rings and get some rods when the Qmax is here (mid April). I went back and reread samnavy's thread on his rebuild and got some ideas (thank you) but I still need some assistance.
Let me state what my plans are:
1) New piston rings
2) Rods
3) ARP studs?
4) Metal headgasket
And I need assistance as to where to buy the different items mentioned and also specifications (in the case of the piston rings).
I really would prefer not to change pistons since I don't think there's any damage in my case but if I had to I wouldn't want to buy forged ones.
I consider this project more like getting some safety margin than anything else. I don't see this becoming a major engine overhaul.
BTW, the head was slightly ported about 1 month ago and they installed new valve seals.
Thanks,
Rafa
#6
I'm in the same boat, and about to rebuild a 1.8. Samnavy's thread was helpful but 1.6 specific. I could not find that Toga made rings for the 1.8.
949Racing dropped the H-beams that I wanted to use. Belfab still has H-beams, but I think they have gone up in price. Are there anymore choices?
For rings I was looking at the Ross Racing Rings
http://www.importperformanceparts.ne...portrings.html
Summit has one of the better deals I have seen on ARP hardware. My question is how much of the need is marketing? At what point do they start to stretch (I am assuming thats what the ARPs cure)? Or are there other fasteners just as good as ARP at better price?
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...1&autoview=sku
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...1&autoview=sku
Update- Froogle found them cheaper here, but not by much.
http://www.carshopinc.com/product_in...74938/218-4701
http://www.carshopinc.com/product_in...74939/218-5401
I can't vouch for this company either. I just found them.
On the head gasket, no one seems to sell an upgraded option. Apparently the stock gasket is more than sufficient. Anyone know anything different?
I am posting this to show what I was thinking about doing not necessarily to say this is how to do it. I want to see what others are thinking too.
949Racing dropped the H-beams that I wanted to use. Belfab still has H-beams, but I think they have gone up in price. Are there anymore choices?
For rings I was looking at the Ross Racing Rings
http://www.importperformanceparts.ne...portrings.html
Summit has one of the better deals I have seen on ARP hardware. My question is how much of the need is marketing? At what point do they start to stretch (I am assuming thats what the ARPs cure)? Or are there other fasteners just as good as ARP at better price?
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...1&autoview=sku
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...1&autoview=sku
Update- Froogle found them cheaper here, but not by much.
http://www.carshopinc.com/product_in...74938/218-4701
http://www.carshopinc.com/product_in...74939/218-5401
I can't vouch for this company either. I just found them.
On the head gasket, no one seems to sell an upgraded option. Apparently the stock gasket is more than sufficient. Anyone know anything different?
I am posting this to show what I was thinking about doing not necessarily to say this is how to do it. I want to see what others are thinking too.
#7
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FWIW, I wish I lived in the States just to be able to get access to good shops. In the meantime, I have to play with the hand I was dealt.
Who would've told me 1 year ago I would had to read and learn so much mechanical stuff.
#8
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I'm in the same boat, and about to rebuild a 1.8. Samnavy's thread was helpful but 1.6 specific. I could not find that Toga made rings for the 1.8.
949Racing dropped the H-beams that I wanted to use. Belfab still has H-beams, but I think they have gone up in price. Are there anymore choices?
For rings I was looking at the Ross Racing Rings
http://www.importperformanceparts.ne...portrings.html
Summit has one of the better deals I have seen on ARP hardware. My question is how much of the need is marketing? At what point do they start to stretch (I am assuming thats what the ARPs cure)? Or are there other fasteners just as good as ARP at better price?
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...1&autoview=sku
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...1&autoview=sku
Update- Froogle found them cheaper here, but not by much.
http://www.carshopinc.com/product_in...74938/218-4701
http://www.carshopinc.com/product_in...74939/218-5401
I can't vouch for this company either. I just found them.
On the head gasket, no one seems to sell an upgraded option. Apparently the stock gasket is more than sufficient. Anyone know anything different?
I am posting this to show what I was thinking about doing not necessarily to say this is how to do it. I want to see what others are thinking too.
949Racing dropped the H-beams that I wanted to use. Belfab still has H-beams, but I think they have gone up in price. Are there anymore choices?
For rings I was looking at the Ross Racing Rings
http://www.importperformanceparts.ne...portrings.html
Summit has one of the better deals I have seen on ARP hardware. My question is how much of the need is marketing? At what point do they start to stretch (I am assuming thats what the ARPs cure)? Or are there other fasteners just as good as ARP at better price?
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...1&autoview=sku
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...1&autoview=sku
Update- Froogle found them cheaper here, but not by much.
http://www.carshopinc.com/product_in...74938/218-4701
http://www.carshopinc.com/product_in...74939/218-5401
I can't vouch for this company either. I just found them.
On the head gasket, no one seems to sell an upgraded option. Apparently the stock gasket is more than sufficient. Anyone know anything different?
I am posting this to show what I was thinking about doing not necessarily to say this is how to do it. I want to see what others are thinking too.
jsisco, great info there. I'm with you regarding the ARP studs. I also want to know if it's marketing hype or if not I would like some of the gurus to give me the reason to buy them.
BTW, FM does sell a metal headgasket for $85 I think. So far I plan to buy that one if I can't find a cheaper one.
How about the rods that Emilio is selling?
Many thanks,
Rafa
#9
Emilio is the guy at 949Racing and he posted they were having problems with the manufacturer.
https://www.miataturbo.net/forum/sho...t=16570&page=2
I was under the impression that the head gasket at FM was just for the 1.6?
Jon
https://www.miataturbo.net/forum/sho...t=16570&page=2
I was under the impression that the head gasket at FM was just for the 1.6?
Jon
Last edited by jsisco; 03-03-2008 at 08:25 PM.
#10
Rafa, you don't really need any better head gasket, just make sure the head is tourqed down right and that your head bolts didnt stretch, maybe thats why you blew the second gasket...ARP is well worth it, they wont stretch (to my knowledge)
Emilio is no longer selling those rods...
Bellfab still carries them
Ask Ben if he is planing another GB in the future for us, i may be in later this year
Miata is on hold, i just bought a house...me so sad now
Emilio is no longer selling those rods...
Bellfab still carries them
Ask Ben if he is planing another GB in the future for us, i may be in later this year
Miata is on hold, i just bought a house...me so sad now
#11
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Another issue; if I buy the ARP studs I have to then buy 2 sets (1 for the bottom and 1 for the head) right? What happens if I cheap out and stick with regular ones? BTW, if I have to buy new ones anyways I would rather go all out and buy the ARP ones.
For me, the crucial issues are the rings and rods. I more or less have the rods covered but I need additional info on which would be the best rings for my case and why?
One thing I was forgetting to mention is that I'm going to be balancing the crank (some local racer has a really updated machine that does precisely that and he charges around $85 to do it). If anyone wants additional info on what precisely is the machine he's got I can pay him a visit tomorrow and get the name. I know about it because I went to see how he balanced a friend's crank from an EVO VI (all I know is that it's controlled via a PC). The guy put the crank in it and the program would show how many ounces to take out .
For me, the crucial issues are the rings and rods. I more or less have the rods covered but I need additional info on which would be the best rings for my case and why?
One thing I was forgetting to mention is that I'm going to be balancing the crank (some local racer has a really updated machine that does precisely that and he charges around $85 to do it). If anyone wants additional info on what precisely is the machine he's got I can pay him a visit tomorrow and get the name. I know about it because I went to see how he balanced a friend's crank from an EVO VI (all I know is that it's controlled via a PC). The guy put the crank in it and the program would show how many ounces to take out .
#12
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Rafa, you don't really need any better head gasket, just make sure the head is tourqed down right and that your head bolts didnt stretch, maybe thats why you blew the second gasket...ARP is well worth it, they wont stretch (to my knowledge)
Emilio is no longer selling those rods...
Bellfab still carries them
Ask Ben if he is planing another GB in the future for us, i may be in later this year
Miata is on hold, i just bought a house...me so sad now
Emilio is no longer selling those rods...
Bellfab still carries them
Ask Ben if he is planing another GB in the future for us, i may be in later this year
Miata is on hold, i just bought a house...me so sad now
Did Mark sell all the sets he had? I think Magna bought the last one.
I'm not sad about that news Dan. Buying a house is always a good thing and I think in the case of those living in the States, this is precisely the time to do it!
#17
jsisco, great info there. I'm with you regarding the ARP studs. I also want to know if it's marketing hype or if not I would like some of the gurus to give me the reason to buy them.
BTW, FM does sell a metal headgasket for $85 I think. So far I plan to buy that one if I can't find a cheaper one.
How about the rods that Emilio is selling?
Many thanks,
Rafa
BTW, FM does sell a metal headgasket for $85 I think. So far I plan to buy that one if I can't find a cheaper one.
How about the rods that Emilio is selling?
Many thanks,
Rafa
When you install a bolt and torque the head, the bolt pulls up on the block, the threads pull down on the bolt. There is friction of course, but the main idea is that these two push/pull forces are equal. The more you tighten the bolt, the more the threads are "pulled up" and this distorts the surface of the block, as it pulls that area around the threads up. As this surface is pulled up, there is less pressure on the head gasket in this area, which can lead to a head gasket failure.
The threads the studs screw into are chamfered, then the stud is installed and torqued down. When it's torqued down, the stud is pushing the surface of the block "down" where it screws in. The stud pushes on the block, the block pushes on the stud. Then, you drop a head on there and tighten up the nuts to secure the head. Now the stud is pulling up on the block and pushing down on the block, and these forces cancel out. The deck surface is relatively flat now, rather than distorted upward.
You can use a stock head gasket they are good and you will be fine, just use head studs, make sure they are installed correctly, and torque everything using the correct lubes to the specified torques and you'll be fine.
#18
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the head studs dont run more torque I dont think. they do, however, allow you to be more consistent from bolt to bolt. and they also eliminate the torsional strain on the bolt. this means greater useable tensile strength. It works like the traction circle...
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Hey guys, many thanks for the different suggestions! I left the car at the shop this morning and plan to go back this afternoon after work to check on things. I figure they'll have already done the compression and leakdown test by then. I'll post figures and decide then.
BTW, Mark I shot you a pm. Many thanks.
Since I already committed to buying the rods from Mark, I still need additional info on which rings to buy and why.
I also see that once I proceed with this project I really need to also buy and install the ARP studs.
I plan to also ask some stupid questions about some pistons that were previously discussed in Samnavy's thread.
Many thanks to all.
Rafa
BTW, Mark I shot you a pm. Many thanks.
Since I already committed to buying the rods from Mark, I still need additional info on which rings to buy and why.
I also see that once I proceed with this project I really need to also buy and install the ARP studs.
I plan to also ask some stupid questions about some pistons that were previously discussed in Samnavy's thread.
Many thanks to all.
Rafa