Borg Warner EFR users.... BE oil pumps/pressure, and AN-6 oil feed?
#1
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 4,648
Total Cats: 544
Borg Warner EFR users.... BE oil pumps/pressure, and AN-6 oil feed?
Hey all, I have a question for those who are using EFR turbos especially in colder climates. I am searching and it's hard to dig through everyone configurations but it's hard to extract the small details about this. I'm building a BP4W to swap into my 92 NA.
For reference, here is the full-race technical document regarding these turbos.
http://www.full-race.com/articles/efrturbotechbrief.pdf
I will try to frame the questions as organized as I can
1) OIL FEED
Page 38
Page 74
I live in New England, this is my daily driver. The line is definitely longer than 18inches. I can get the appropriate adapter AN-6/M12x1.5 to support an AN6 oil feed line (self restricted in the turbo). Where would one even source oil for this size of a line? To tee off the pressure sender, one could definitely use a 1/8NPTF to AN-6 male, but then it's already restricted at the source. Do aftermarket oil sandwich plates accommodate AN-6? (I also have the oem oil cooler plate, but no cooler is being used with the car). Is anyone in a cold environment using an AN-4 with success, or what is your AN-6 setup.
2) OIL PRESSURE
Page 74
Is anyone using a Boundary Engineering pump with their setup? If so, did you opt for a shimmed option? I ordered a Boundary Engineering street/strip pump and Travis@BE recommended to get 2 shims with the pump (+14psi). But now I am uncertain if I should remove one or both shims.
A lot of these may be self explanatory, but I appreciate any help if you have any insights to share. I'm more worried about the oil pressure because that would be much harder to modify after the motor is installed.
Edit:
I just realized maybe I should have posted this under DIY turbo instead of Engine Performance. Sorry mods.
For reference, here is the full-race technical document regarding these turbos.
http://www.full-race.com/articles/efrturbotechbrief.pdf
I will try to frame the questions as organized as I can
1) OIL FEED
Page 38
A
-4AN male fitting has been provided on the EFR turbo and a -4AN (1/4”)
line is sufficient as long as the engine supply pressure is healthy and the
line(s) are kept short. If the line is longer than about 18” then it’s
advised to step up to a -6 supply line. This is most critical for people
living in cold climates.
-4AN male fitting has been provided on the EFR turbo and a -4AN (1/4”)
line is sufficient as long as the engine supply pressure is healthy and the
line(s) are kept short. If the line is longer than about 18” then it’s
advised to step up to a -6 supply line. This is most critical for people
living in cold climates.
The oil supply line should be kept as short as possible.
If a line of unusual length is required, we recommend a -6AN line
especially for very cold climates. -3AN line is not recommended due to
excessive oil supply delay times during cold start. We recommend that
oil reaches the turbo in less that 4 seconds during a cold start cranking,
and in under 1 second during hot-start conditions.
If a line of unusual length is required, we recommend a -6AN line
especially for very cold climates. -3AN line is not recommended due to
excessive oil supply delay times during cold start. We recommend that
oil reaches the turbo in less that 4 seconds during a cold start cranking,
and in under 1 second during hot-start conditions.
2) OIL PRESSURE
Page 74
Inlet oil pressure
(gage) is recommended to be at least 1bar (15psi) and not more than
4bar (60psi) under all “fully warmed-up” conditions.
(gage) is recommended to be at least 1bar (15psi) and not more than
4bar (60psi) under all “fully warmed-up” conditions.
A lot of these may be self explanatory, but I appreciate any help if you have any insights to share. I'm more worried about the oil pressure because that would be much harder to modify after the motor is installed.
Edit:
I just realized maybe I should have posted this under DIY turbo instead of Engine Performance. Sorry mods.
#2
Elite Member
iTrader: (16)
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Las Cruces, NM
Posts: 1,647
Total Cats: 524
I'm using the BE oil pump with my setup. I have one shim in the pump. My oil supply line is -4AN and the line is longer than 18". I've had this setup for a couple of years and so far, no problems. I'm in NM, so my climate is warm.
#3
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 4,648
Total Cats: 544
Thanks for the response. Most of my setup is actually mirroring yours! But I am a bit more worried about the climate endured in New England. I'll definitely consider removing one of the shims from the pump, but I'm still a bit uncertain about the feed source.
Something tells me it won't hurt to have a larger hydraulic diameter even though the source is a bit smaller. It's not like pumping cold oil through a coffee stirrer.
Something tells me it won't hurt to have a larger hydraulic diameter even though the source is a bit smaller. It's not like pumping cold oil through a coffee stirrer.
#4
Elite Member
iTrader: (16)
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Las Cruces, NM
Posts: 1,647
Total Cats: 524
There is a flow restrictor built into the turbo. Another option to explore may be oil viscosities. Going thinner may help cold temp flow.
Edit: Clarification: thinner cold temp viscosity.
Edit: Clarification: thinner cold temp viscosity.
Last edited by 99mx5; 09-17-2013 at 11:11 PM.
#5
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 4,648
Total Cats: 544
clearly, i should just move to a warmer climate lol
#7
I have a BE street/strip pump, unknown shimming but my hot oil pressure at idle shows lower than the 25psi mark on the stock gauge with rotella T5. I have the oil line sourced from the vvt line, its about 20" long but runs entirely downhill, -4AN. Car does not get run in the winter, early october is probably the latest date it will start. The EFR does spin at idle, but IMO with the ceramic BBs and such low forces and speed on the bearings I wouldnt worry about them not being bathed in oil while sitting at idle waiting for it to warm up. I would give it a few seconds to get oil after startup. If I was really worried about it I would crank the engine with the throttle floored (flood clear mode, it shouldnt start) until oil pressure builds on the gauge and then start it.
Last edited by Leafy; 09-18-2013 at 10:32 AM.
#11
I have a 94 block, so yeah, the driver side. It's a short line.
I would trust whatever the EFR manual says.
So, if your only option is the passenger side I would do this -
1/8bsp to -6an adapter - http://97.74.32.155/files/un816.pdf part #BM206A, ask for black
-6AN line
and a fitting like this - JEGS Performance Products 100520 JEGS Fuel Pressure Gauge In-Line Adapter Fittings to mount the oil pressure gauge in-line. Mount it somewhere firm (firewall will work, but mounting things on the firewall is a fire hazard)
I would trust whatever the EFR manual says.
So, if your only option is the passenger side I would do this -
1/8bsp to -6an adapter - http://97.74.32.155/files/un816.pdf part #BM206A, ask for black
-6AN line
and a fitting like this - JEGS Performance Products 100520 JEGS Fuel Pressure Gauge In-Line Adapter Fittings to mount the oil pressure gauge in-line. Mount it somewhere firm (firewall will work, but mounting things on the firewall is a fire hazard)
#12
Senior Member
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Lambertville, NJ
Posts: 1,215
Total Cats: 74
- A long -6 line will have the same resistance to flow as a short -4 line. Resistance to flow is additive, so even though you already have some restriction in the line, it's still beneficial to up-size the line after it! So definitely go with the larger one.
- Leafy wrote that his feed-line goes downhill. Imho that's not a good idea, because it will empty out under gravity while it's sitting with the engine shut off. It will still be hot from running before. So you add another few milliseconds without supply on startup.
- Leafy wrote that his feed-line goes downhill. Imho that's not a good idea, because it will empty out under gravity while it's sitting with the engine shut off. It will still be hot from running before. So you add another few milliseconds without supply on startup.
#13
- A long -6 line will have the same resistance to flow as a short -4 line. Resistance to flow is additive, so even though you already have some restriction in the line, it's still beneficial to up-size the line after it! So definitely go with the larger one.
- Leafy wrote that his feed-line goes downhill. Imho that's not a good idea, because it will empty out under gravity while it's sitting with the engine shut off. It will still be hot from running before. So you add another few milliseconds without supply on startup.
- Leafy wrote that his feed-line goes downhill. Imho that's not a good idea, because it will empty out under gravity while it's sitting with the engine shut off. It will still be hot from running before. So you add another few milliseconds without supply on startup.
#14
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 4,648
Total Cats: 544
http://www.racingbeat.com/RX8/Oil-System/11803.html
I found this oil adapter which should work with the bp4w amd it has a 3/8"npt. Should be perfect diameter for turbo feed.
A bit pricey but I'd do it to keep the turbo happy
I found this oil adapter which should work with the bp4w amd it has a 3/8"npt. Should be perfect diameter for turbo feed.
A bit pricey but I'd do it to keep the turbo happy
#16
Elite Member
iTrader: (8)
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Kingston, Ontario
Posts: 2,910
Total Cats: 51
The pump is downstream of the system if it were routed uphill. It doesnt drain back all of the oil to the pan that is in the pressure side.
Either way, its splitting hairs. the oil pressure will be high as soon as the engine has enough rpm to run. the turbo will have that pressure by the time the engine has run long enough to spin it up to idle speed.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
stoves
Suspension, Brakes, Drivetrain
5
04-21-2016 03:00 PM
JesseTheNoob
DIY Turbo Discussion
15
09-30-2015 02:44 PM