miataturbo.net-like debauchery thread (about the ND or something) - Page 35 - Miata Turbo Forum -Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


General Miata Chat A place to talk about anything Miata

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 02-05-2015, 01:09 PM   #681
Elite Member
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 7,237
Total Cats: 554
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chilicharger665 View Post
The fact that they didn't even tune it from the econo car application is insulting and lazy. The pathetic specific output is industry leading... in the wrong direction.

You don't even know this, and it's great that everyone is still parroting it anyways.

Fact: They cannot use the same manifolds. That's going to be a change right there.


You act like everyone noticed the extra 3hp that they gave the BP in the NA8 even though the difference in driveline loss from the FWD econobox more than made up for it. Gimme a break.

You want it to be tuned differently? Drive a 2016 Miata and a 2016 Mazda 3, and see which car is more fun to drive.

The Miata has never been great because of its motor. Miata motors have been passable because they come in an awesome package. Why is it so offensive NOW, 27 years later?
concealer404 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2015, 01:13 PM   #682
Elite Member
iTrader: (5)
 
Erat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Detroit
Posts: 3,890
Total Cats: 220
Default

It's a different generation.

The entitlement generation.

I didn't design the car and i'm going to whine and complain about how i would have done it.
Erat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2015, 01:17 PM   #683
Elite Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Leafy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: woosta, ma
Posts: 8,611
Total Cats: 91
Default

I just want the car to sell well so that they'll be a shitload of them on the used market in 10 years for cheap. I dont see the car selling well with only 155hp, no matter how good it drives, people still need to be interested enough to show up and test drive it for themselves and I dont think in 2016 many people are going to want to come in and test drive a $30k sports car with only 155hp. I hope I'm wrong or I hope mazda updates the motor mid run like they have done before.
Leafy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2015, 01:36 PM   #684
Elite Member
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 7,237
Total Cats: 554
Default

Data point: There are over 6x the amount of BRZ/FRS sold than there were MSMs.

Both are pretty easy to find used. 10 years later for the MSM.
concealer404 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2015, 01:48 PM   #685
SOMEOFIT
iTrader: (1)
 
Girz0r's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 2,514
Total Cats: 219
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by concealer404 View Post
This is a motor that will get gas mileage like you have wet dreams about in your BP
^This... many feels.
Girz0r is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2015, 03:40 PM   #686
I take big bites
iTrader: (1)
 
turbofan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 6,000
Total Cats: 409
Default

Gonna have to agree with Leafy. I want it to have more power just so Mazda will sell more of them, because face it.... MORE POWER WOULD SELL MORE OF THEM.

The people who want a BRZ... if the Miata had the same number of horsepower as the BRZ (or even a little less) they would consider a new Miata instead. But with 155 measly horsepower? It's not happening.

You can explain why those people are wrong til you're blue in the face, but the fact is: they have money, and they're going to spend it, and it likely won't be on a Miata. By keeping the horsepower figure so low it's going to continue to be the wine-and-cheesers who buy the car.
turbofan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2015, 03:48 PM   #687
Elite Member
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 7,237
Total Cats: 554
Default

Thing is, the BRZ/FRS isn't being produced in quantities large enough to matter against Miata sales figures, and enthusiasts will probably make up less than 10% of the purchases, so it really doesn't matter. At all.
concealer404 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2015, 03:58 PM   #688
I take big bites
iTrader: (1)
 
turbofan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 6,000
Total Cats: 409
Default

People keep saying that.

"Well, the people who want a Miata aren't the people who want a lot of power anyway. They just want a traditional sports car."

It's true. BUT IT'S ONLY TRUE BECAUSE MAZDA PHONES IN THEIR MIATA DRIVETRAINS. Can nobody else see this? You're right -- high-performance enthusiasts won't buy the car. But if they but a cracking engine in it, they might, eh? It's a self fulfilling prophecy.

"high-po enthusiasts won't buy the car so we won't put power in it."

"Hi-po enthusiasts won't buy the car BECAUSE we won't put power in it."
turbofan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2015, 04:00 PM   #689
Elite Member
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 7,237
Total Cats: 554
Default

You're right. The philosophy has really destroyed their sales in the past.

Just think, if they had put more power in the car, it would have been the best-selling sports car of all time.




The larger point i was making is that enthusiasts aren't the people that you bank on for a high volume car. Because there's not many enthusiasts. Hard to believe, but most people buy cars because they need them, they like the color, and they look pretty.
concealer404 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2015, 04:03 PM   #690
Boost Czar

iTrader: (60)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 70,179
Total Cats: 1,402
Default

if I wanted a slow miata, I'd buy a brz (which is outselling the miata).

look at the sales figures of corvettes vs miatas, then tell me people dont want high HP sports cars.


if youre too lazy...ill give you January's sales: 338 vs 2127.
Braineack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2015, 04:06 PM   #691
Elite Member
iTrader: (7)
 
Ryan_G's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 2,176
Total Cats: 116
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by concealer404 View Post
You're right. The philosophy has really destroyed their sales in the past.

Just think, if they had put more power in the car, it would have been the best-selling sports car of all time.
Beautiful sales trending.

Ryan_G is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2015, 04:08 PM   #692
Elite Member
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 7,237
Total Cats: 554
Default

Ok cool, so they gave us another NA for the 21st century. With more power, updated looks, and better gas mileage.

Should be a smashing success according to that graph.

Everyone: "I love my miata. It'd be perfect with 20-30hp more."

ND: YOU'RE WELCOME. SUCK MY DICK.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
if I wanted a slow miata, I'd buy a brz (which is outselling the miata).

look at the sales figures of corvettes vs miatas. then tell me people dont want high HP sports cars.

That'd be a pretty valid comparison if A) the BRZ was 8-9 years old like the current Miata and B) i could get a Vette for $25k out the door.

**** a Miata, i'll buy a Veyron.
concealer404 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2015, 04:23 PM   #693
Elite Member
iTrader: (7)
 
Ryan_G's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 2,176
Total Cats: 116
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by concealer404 View Post
Ok cool, so they gave us another NA for the 21st century. With more power, updated looks, and better gas mileage.

Should be a smashing success according to that graph.

Everyone: "I love my miata. It'd be perfect with 20-30hp more."

ND: YOU'RE WELCOME. SUCK MY DICK.

That'd be a pretty valid comparison if A) the BRZ was 8-9 years old like the current Miata and B) i could get a Vette for $25k out the door.

**** a Miata, i'll buy a Veyron.
The updated looks are definitely going to help sales. I think that was the biggest draw back of the NC for a long time. I don't know about you but mpg is not even in the top 5 characteristics I look for in a two seat, drop top, sports car. As long as they are not abysmal like the rx-8 I could give two ***** and I would imagine that in the weekend/summer car category that the miata generally falls into this is a market wide sentiment. It is not a prius.

I have only driven a bone stock NB which is only 12hp shy of the ND and about a 100 pounds heavier and I thought it needed atleast 30 more horsepower and some more low end power. Which is about what I thought the ND would have.

I think the corvette isn't the worst comparison to make because you would expect a much cheaper car to outsell a significantly more expensive model. I know far more people who spend 30k or less on a vehicle than I do that spend 50k+.
Ryan_G is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2015, 04:55 PM   #694
Junior Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Arlington, TX
Posts: 310
Total Cats: 39
Default

I'm not taking a stance that the new Miata should have a 250HP 9K RPM motor, but 155HP probably isn't enough to revive the Miata sales, unless it has enough suspension awesomeness that it just blows people away during test drives. Most people will just buy something else with more power, and never test drive the Miata.

Today, people care more about the specs than ever. The base model 2015 Camry has 170HP lol. Yes, it's a boat in comparison to the Miata, but still. Often, people layout the specs of various cars using the comparision tools on websites.

Don't get me wrong, I still think Mazda took a leap in the right direction with the ND over the NC. But when everyone has been wishing for a faster Miata for the past 15 years, you may want to add a few HP, not drop 12HP.

Maybe I'm wrong and people will go crazy for the new Miata. Maybe in a couple years it will get a more impressive motor. Maybe another Mazdaspeed Miata is in the works that will have the grunt to shut everyone up. Only time will tell.

All I know is, if the ND had 200HP, it would be turning alot more heads, and people would be asking alot less questions. Does it NEED that much power? No. Do people WANT that much power? Yes. People buy a new sports car based on want, not need.

Needless to say, this isn't shocking. Mazda has a tendancy to underpower their cars in relation to the rest of the market.
Dustin1824 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2015, 08:16 PM   #695
Elite Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Leafy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: woosta, ma
Posts: 8,611
Total Cats: 91
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan_G View Post
Beautiful sales trending.

I bet if you overlayed a graph of the percentage that the miata hp per year was below the average cars hp that year they would follow each other.
Leafy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2015, 08:35 PM   #696
Elite Member
iTrader: (7)
 
Ryan_G's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 2,176
Total Cats: 116
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafy View Post

I bet if you overlayed a graph of the percentage that the miata hp per year was below the average cars hp that year they would follow each other.
I actually wanted to do that but I was at work and didn't have the time.
Ryan_G is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2015, 08:57 PM   #697
Senior Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: SE NM
Posts: 1,138
Total Cats: 28
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by concealer404 View Post
You don't even know this, and it's great that everyone is still parroting it anyways.

Fact: They cannot use the same manifolds. That's going to be a change right there.


You act like everyone noticed the extra 3hp that they gave the BP in the NA8 even though the difference in driveline loss from the FWD econobox more than made up for it. Gimme a break.

You want it to be tuned differently? Drive a 2016 Miata and a 2016 Mazda 3, and see which car is more fun to drive.

The Miata has never been great because of its motor. Miata motors have been passable because they come in an awesome package. Why is it so offensive NOW, 27 years later?
I don't know that a FWD engine won't fit in a RWD application properly without changing the manifolds? Uh, yes I do, I took that as a given that everyone would understand that.

How can anyone defend the SAME DISPLACEMENT engine making less HP than before, regardless of weight loss?
Chilicharger665 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2015, 09:30 PM   #698
Elite Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 4,654
Total Cats: 209
Default

How sure are we that the engine is actually going to be 155hp?

The MZR was from the old Mazda3 but it was tuned up from 148hp to 170hp for the Miata. It would make sense that when they put the 155hp "SKYACTIV-G" from the new Mazda3 into the new Miata that they would give it a similar tune up. A new intake manifold and exhaust manifold alone could make some significant improvements.
Full_Tilt_Boogie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2015, 09:46 PM   #699
I take big bites
iTrader: (1)
 
turbofan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 6,000
Total Cats: 409
Default

Sir you're very late to the party. Mazda has announced it.
turbofan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2015, 10:06 PM   #700
Elite Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 4,654
Total Cats: 209
Default

Okay I have figured it out. It all makes sense when you plot US sales vs Miata horsepower through the generations



MOAR POWER = LESS SALES

They should have just put the B6 back in there.
Full_Tilt_Boogie is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
OTS Bilstein to motorsports ASN conversion stoves Suspension, Brakes, Drivetrain 5 04-21-2016 04:00 PM
Going back to stock. Need some 1.6 parts. Trent WTB 2 10-01-2015 01:15 PM
Leaky Wilwoods mx592 Suspension, Brakes, Drivetrain 1 10-01-2015 01:45 AM


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:01 AM.