Fighting red light ticket...
12-07-2010, 02:56 AM
#1
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Loganville, GA
Posts: 2,331
Total Cats: 202
Fighting red light ticket...
Ok, I know this is somewhat of a fools errand because it will cost me money just to go to court - but I have plenty of time off built up and its somewhat of a matter of principal.
What I want to know is if my line of reasoning will (in your opinion) help me beat the ticket.
Here is what I admit, and what the evidence shows:
It was indeed my car.
My car did cross into the intersection while the light was red. (but maybe a half second after it turned red.)
My line of defense is that based on the design of the intersection and the road conditions I was not able to see the light change from green to yellow, thus giving me no time to slow down or stop.
My facts based on evidence:
*There was a large semi-tractor trailer to my right and at the moment the camera captured me I (like me personally in the drivers seat) was approximately 20 feet behind the tail of the tractor trailer and approximately 15 feet to the left.
*The road bears to the right, and all traffic signals that correspond to traffic going straight (and not turning) are positioned on the right side of the road.
*If the yellow light is 3 seconds long (I plan on finding out from traffic control folks) and the speed limit was 45mph, that would give me 198 feet to see the yellow light and react to it. <<Link to street view of intersection at approximately 198 feet>>
*Based on the height of the tractor-trailer and the positioning of it in relation to me I was unable to see the light until it was too late to stop - at which time I accelerated to clear the intersection. (this is pretty much only 15 feet before I crossed the line into the intersection)
I was heading Eastbound on W. Lake Street at County Farm Road.
Feel free to check out street view and approach that intersection. You will see exactly what I am talking about.
I am working on creating pictures and illustrations to show the sight lines at that intersection. Let me know if you think my defense stands a chance.
What I want to know is if my line of reasoning will (in your opinion) help me beat the ticket.
Here is what I admit, and what the evidence shows:
It was indeed my car.
My car did cross into the intersection while the light was red. (but maybe a half second after it turned red.)
My line of defense is that based on the design of the intersection and the road conditions I was not able to see the light change from green to yellow, thus giving me no time to slow down or stop.
My facts based on evidence:
*There was a large semi-tractor trailer to my right and at the moment the camera captured me I (like me personally in the drivers seat) was approximately 20 feet behind the tail of the tractor trailer and approximately 15 feet to the left.
*The road bears to the right, and all traffic signals that correspond to traffic going straight (and not turning) are positioned on the right side of the road.
*If the yellow light is 3 seconds long (I plan on finding out from traffic control folks) and the speed limit was 45mph, that would give me 198 feet to see the yellow light and react to it. <<Link to street view of intersection at approximately 198 feet>>
*Based on the height of the tractor-trailer and the positioning of it in relation to me I was unable to see the light until it was too late to stop - at which time I accelerated to clear the intersection. (this is pretty much only 15 feet before I crossed the line into the intersection)
I was heading Eastbound on W. Lake Street at County Farm Road.
Feel free to check out street view and approach that intersection. You will see exactly what I am talking about.
I am working on creating pictures and illustrations to show the sight lines at that intersection. Let me know if you think my defense stands a chance.
Reply
0
0
12-07-2010, 05:24 AM
#2
Cpt. Slow
iTrader: (25)
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Oregon City, OR
Posts: 14,189
Total Cats: 1,135
If theres a semi blocking any light that pertains to you, you need to either get in front of it or behind it. Happens all the time when left turn green arrows go to unprotected green lights, making you yield to on coming traffic. If there's a semi in front, you need to stop at a green light until you can make sure it's still a green arrow for you. Sounds like the same thing pertains.
Reply
0
0
12-07-2010, 05:47 AM
#3
Elite Member
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: VA, Germany, Afghanistan
Posts: 2,945
Total Cats: 3
Just pay the ticket, not worth dealing with it. Unless you have enough points on your license that this will result in loss of said license that is, in that case, gt a lawyer and let them fight it out.
Reply
0
0
12-07-2010, 06:51 AM
#4
Senior Member
iTrader: (14)
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: South East Florida
Posts: 677
Total Cats: 6
If I were the judge I would let you off. From now on, I will bet you approach that intersection making sure your view is clear to see the light. Lesson learned- sounds like an accident.
Reply
0
0
12-07-2010, 07:57 AM
#5
Tour de Franzia
iTrader: (6)
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,085
Total Cats: 375
Check up on fighting the ticket, you probably have to go through arbitration to fight it. I have 3 red light tickets where two show my car stopped at a red light, the other shows me in the middle of the intersection with a yellow. I paid them because fighting them means going to an arbitration hearing in Arizona.
This should be illegal.
This should be illegal.
Reply
0
0
12-07-2010, 07:57 AM
#6
I'd also note how far back the stop-line is from the lights. It's a very wide intersection. This attributes to less distance to make a safe, complete stop upon seeing the light at a later time due to the decreased visibility. Can the truck that was blocking your line of sight be seen in the pictures of you running the intersection?
Take into account that traveling at 40mph (the speed limit as seen by backing up a bit down the street and reading a sign) has you moving at 59 feet per second. With that said 198/59 = 3.3 seconds reaction time...though you should knock off 1 second of that just for see/making a decision/putting your decision into action....so just a hair over 2 seconds (or 129 ft) to make a stop if need be. Given the amount of trucks seen in the area just on streetview, I can imagine that this happens quite a bit at this intersection. I'm sure the local municipality knows this and almost preys on this for revenue. If your local news has a 'traffic guy' or anything, try contacting them and maybe put pressure on the local DOT to change the traffic signals at that intersection....or at least get some publicity.
First thing you need to do is get an extention on your court date to give yourself more time to gather information for your case.
Your only problem is that road tests show that 60-0 of your Jeep is about 130ft, meaning that if you were traveling at the correct speed limit (40-45 mph) you should be able to stop well under 130ft....or within 3 seconds. Though you could argue that it would have taken you slamming on the brakes as hard as you could to come to a stop but doing so could have caused the vehicle behind you to rear-end you as they might not have been expecting you to make an "emergency stop". I wouldn't admit to such data showing that you technically could have stopped until it's either a last-dtich effort or they question your ability to stop in the mount of time you had.
Or you could print off a series of pictures like this showing where you were, the location of the truck and how you couldn't see the light until it was too late and unsafe to come to a stop. This one was made at the moment of the light turning yellow. At 40mph you're moving 59 fps, which would put you 177ft back from the stop line (3 seconds of travel). I assumed you were in the left lane and the truck was in the center lane. The blue is the line of sight to the light and the gold is your view of the intersection.
TrafficLight by AnonymousNamelss, on Flickr
Take into account that traveling at 40mph (the speed limit as seen by backing up a bit down the street and reading a sign) has you moving at 59 feet per second. With that said 198/59 = 3.3 seconds reaction time...though you should knock off 1 second of that just for see/making a decision/putting your decision into action....so just a hair over 2 seconds (or 129 ft) to make a stop if need be. Given the amount of trucks seen in the area just on streetview, I can imagine that this happens quite a bit at this intersection. I'm sure the local municipality knows this and almost preys on this for revenue. If your local news has a 'traffic guy' or anything, try contacting them and maybe put pressure on the local DOT to change the traffic signals at that intersection....or at least get some publicity.
First thing you need to do is get an extention on your court date to give yourself more time to gather information for your case.
Your only problem is that road tests show that 60-0 of your Jeep is about 130ft, meaning that if you were traveling at the correct speed limit (40-45 mph) you should be able to stop well under 130ft....or within 3 seconds. Though you could argue that it would have taken you slamming on the brakes as hard as you could to come to a stop but doing so could have caused the vehicle behind you to rear-end you as they might not have been expecting you to make an "emergency stop". I wouldn't admit to such data showing that you technically could have stopped until it's either a last-dtich effort or they question your ability to stop in the mount of time you had.
Or you could print off a series of pictures like this showing where you were, the location of the truck and how you couldn't see the light until it was too late and unsafe to come to a stop. This one was made at the moment of the light turning yellow. At 40mph you're moving 59 fps, which would put you 177ft back from the stop line (3 seconds of travel). I assumed you were in the left lane and the truck was in the center lane. The blue is the line of sight to the light and the gold is your view of the intersection.
TrafficLight by AnonymousNamelss, on Flickr
Last edited by Doppelgänger; 12-07-2010 at 08:44 AM.
Reply
0
0
12-07-2010, 10:01 AM
#8
Tour de Franzia
iTrader: (6)
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,085
Total Cats: 375
Considering the history of socialist and corrupt leadership in your state and city, I don't fault you for your opinion. However in the Lord's Great Republic of Texas we don't put up with **** like that.
Reply
0
0
12-07-2010, 10:43 AM
#10
If the traffic that is in front of you shows no indication of the light not being green, why not trust them? I know I've been stuck behind large vehicles that were blocking my view of the traffic signals.
It's not the people who run a light as it's turning red who cause the bad accidents (since there is 3 seconds until the other light turns green), it's the people not paying attention who run the light long after it's changed and don't know it.
It's not the people who run a light as it's turning red who cause the bad accidents (since there is 3 seconds until the other light turns green), it's the people not paying attention who run the light long after it's changed and don't know it.
Reply
0
0
12-07-2010, 11:04 AM
#11
I've found myself in the exact same situation during a left turn.
Road crests (bridge) before the light, tall truck in front of me, and could not hang far enough back to see the light myself.
I still ran it, no way around it. I looked into fighting these and it's ridiculously stupid. Some company in Arizona runs it, and I even got charged a fee that's equal to 33% of the fine when they sent you a second notice after having never received the first.
Bullshit.
Road crests (bridge) before the light, tall truck in front of me, and could not hang far enough back to see the light myself.
I still ran it, no way around it. I looked into fighting these and it's ridiculously stupid. Some company in Arizona runs it, and I even got charged a fee that's equal to 33% of the fine when they sent you a second notice after having never received the first.
Bullshit.
Reply
0
0
12-07-2010, 11:15 AM
#12
Junior Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 248
Total Cats: 0
Ok, not sure how they roll where you're at, but something like this is rather easy to fight in AZ. Fight as in don't respond. If it's file under a traffic offense you have to be served the ticket by a uniformed officer, other types I'm not so sure they have to. Before thinking of fighting it, you should look at the ticket itself. Technicalities can save you from all of this.
1. check everything against your registration.
2. If it's a camera ticket, check the picture to see if your face is clear enough to see. (if you can see your smudged face, then they got you. Enhancement of the pic is easy for them)
3. If it's a camera ticket, don't respond. Lost in the mail excuse works wonders believe it or not.
If you're really worried about it, just pay it. If it's obvious that you can't get away with it, pay it. I've skated on a few flasher tickets since the state doesn't have money to come at me, and I never heard anything from them. There's nothing on my record since I have to maintain a security clearance, and I just updated it recently. One of the things they check for is unpaid tickets and I had none. You can usually find a local registry pertaining to civic offenses like traffic violations if you google it. I know my entire criminal/traffic history because Arizona has one.
Check bro and good luck.
1. check everything against your registration.
2. If it's a camera ticket, check the picture to see if your face is clear enough to see. (if you can see your smudged face, then they got you. Enhancement of the pic is easy for them)
3. If it's a camera ticket, don't respond. Lost in the mail excuse works wonders believe it or not.
If you're really worried about it, just pay it. If it's obvious that you can't get away with it, pay it. I've skated on a few flasher tickets since the state doesn't have money to come at me, and I never heard anything from them. There's nothing on my record since I have to maintain a security clearance, and I just updated it recently. One of the things they check for is unpaid tickets and I had none. You can usually find a local registry pertaining to civic offenses like traffic violations if you google it. I know my entire criminal/traffic history because Arizona has one.
Check bro and good luck.
Reply
0
0
12-07-2010, 12:42 PM
#14
Ok, not sure how they roll where you're at, but something like this is rather easy to fight in AZ. Fight as in don't respond. If it's file under a traffic offense you have to be served the ticket by a uniformed officer, other types I'm not so sure they have to. Before thinking of fighting it, you should look at the ticket itself. Technicalities can save you from all of this.
Here it's not a traffic offense, but not paying one will prevent you from being able to re-register the vehicle.
Reply
0
0
12-07-2010, 01:39 PM
#18
I have a friend who did it one night on purpose. In GA, you have to pay a fine, but no points are assesd nor does it go on your record.
http://www.ghsa.org/html/stateinfo/l...o_enforce.html
Anyway. He went out one night and did a massive drift through an intersection, got the picture and now has it framed on his wall.
Originally Posted by wesite
$70 max.; not a conviction or record offense; no points; not a moving violation; not to be used by insurers
Anyway. He went out one night and did a massive drift through an intersection, got the picture and now has it framed on his wall.
Reply
0
0
12-07-2010, 01:43 PM
#19
Ours come with videos. I got a good laugh out of my wife when she got one right after they put them up at the single intersection in our town. She didn't quite come to a stop making a right hand turn (we are a right-on-red state). I called her when it showed up and she swore up and down she always stops...but after seeing the video just turned and stormed off...LOL.
Reply
0
0
