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Old 06-02-2015, 11:15 AM   #22401
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enginerd View Post
And that's how the most annoying drivers in the world are born.

Pulse and Glide strategy = Enter fast lane, speed up to 70, then slow down to 55, repeat.
Uphill strategy = Accelerate to 70 in the fast lane, slow down to 45 going up the hill, then coast back up to 70 going downhill.
Recharge strategy = Slow down for stop light 1/2 block before stop light, allowing cars from all side lanes to pass in front of you while blocking everyone behind you.
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Originally Posted by deezums View Post
Those things are exclusive to the prius? Isn't that just basic hypermile strategy?

I don't really care to watch nine minutes of prius driving secrets as I'll likely never own one. Is there any strategy exclusive to the prius? I can't think of one.
Totally agree that the methods in that video are highly irritating to other drivers. They can work in stop n go traffic in some cases, but generally, they will make road rage a reality. What I've seen on most forums is the qualification "if nobody is around, you can try some pulse and glide"... personal experience trying that **** was that I felt like a dickbag driving that way.

The educational part specific to the prius was that the bar on the dash tells you when you're operating in various modes. it looks something like this:




The lighter bar on the right is primarily gas engine and allegedly shows you the prius most efficient gas engine accel range. the orange skinny bar is power and relatively inefficient. The throttle mapping makes it somewhat tough to get to the top of the orange bar which is to be expected. ECO mode makes that mapping even less power-easy. PWR mode does the opposite. Generally if you stay below orange power bar and drive pretty non-aggressively like a big 18 wheeler, you'll get decent mileage.

They also tell you that as long as you're braking moderately lightly, the deceleration effort is all/primarily regenerative. I find that useful and interesting and maybe a little bit obvious after thinking about it for a minute. I wasn't sure how much force was required to spin the generator--if it was sufficient to slow a big fat prius from, say, 20 to 3mph in 200 ft all by itself. Apparently the limit for regen braking is something like 55 amps for the prius. apparently there are scanner/gauges that will show you this info so you can stare somewhere other than the road to maximize regeneration and plow into random obstacles.
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Old 06-02-2015, 01:59 PM   #22402
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<p>Wow: http://www.allgov.com/news/where-is-the-money-going/47-of-americans-would-have-to-borrow-or-sell-something-to-cover-an-unexpected-expense-of-400-150502?news=856624</p>
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Old 06-02-2015, 02:25 PM   #22403
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Wait: someone tell me how "pulse and glide" could possibly be more efficient than steady cruising.
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Old 06-02-2015, 03:06 PM   #22404
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Originally Posted by mgeoffriau View Post
Wait: someone tell me how "pulse and glide" could possibly be more efficient than steady cruising.
gasoline engines are more efficient at larger throttle openings.

P&G also requires slower speeds (to maintain the glide without using gas) which is more fuel efficient (beacuse less air resistance)

the gliding portion ideally uses no fuel or battery power and does not regenerate using engine braking. if you're regenerating, you're inefficiently charging that battery instead of rolling more miles for 0 gallons.

Nasa: https://technology.grc.nasa.gov/tech...GR-5156&mini=y
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Old 06-02-2015, 06:11 PM   #22405
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Originally Posted by y8s View Post
Totally agree that the methods in that video are highly irritating to other drivers. They can work in stop n go traffic in some cases, but generally, they will make road rage a reality. What I've seen on most forums is the qualification "if nobody is around, you can try some pulse and glide"... personal experience trying that **** was that I felt like a dickbag driving that way.

The educational part specific to the prius was that the bar on the dash tells you when you're operating in various modes. it looks something like this:




The lighter bar on the right is primarily gas engine and allegedly shows you the prius most efficient gas engine accel range. the orange skinny bar is power and relatively inefficient. The throttle mapping makes it somewhat tough to get to the top of the orange bar which is to be expected. ECO mode makes that mapping even less power-easy. PWR mode does the opposite. Generally if you stay below orange power bar and drive pretty non-aggressively like a big 18 wheeler, you'll get decent mileage.

They also tell you that as long as you're braking moderately lightly, the deceleration effort is all/primarily regenerative. I find that useful and interesting and maybe a little bit obvious after thinking about it for a minute. I wasn't sure how much force was required to spin the generator--if it was sufficient to slow a big fat prius from, say, 20 to 3mph in 200 ft all by itself. Apparently the limit for regen braking is something like 55 amps for the prius. apparently there are scanner/gauges that will show you this info so you can stare somewhere other than the road to maximize regeneration and plow into random obstacles.
Seeing this, and hearing you describe it, makes me posit the following:

Would we be better off, in the long run, to forget about building hybrid cars and instead merely outfit small gas-engined cars with tiny turbochargers and dashboard gauges which remind us to drive as though we were in an 18-wheeler with a fuel supply problem?






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Originally Posted by aidandj View Post
<p>Wow: http://www.allgov.com/news/where-is-the-money-going/47-of-americans-would-have-to-borrow-or-sell-something-to-cover-an-unexpected-expense-of-400-150502?news=856624</p>
If true, then somewhere around 40% of all Americans are utterly failing at life. That's not just me being a 5%er, it's the truth.
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Old 06-02-2015, 06:24 PM   #22406
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Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
If true, then somewhere around 40% of all Americans are utterly failing at life. That's not just me being a 5%er, it's the truth.
I'd put the number far north of that. More like 75%. Just 50% would be a highly conservative estimate.
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Old 06-02-2015, 06:24 PM   #22407
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
Seeing this, and hearing you describe it, makes me posit the following:

Would we be better off, in the long run, to forget about building hybrid cars and instead merely outfit small gas-engined cars with tiny turbochargers and dashboard gauges which remind us to drive as though we were in an 18-wheeler with a fuel supply problem?
You just described the 2015* Ford Fiesta Ecoboost.




* in the US anyway.
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Old 06-02-2015, 06:50 PM   #22408
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Can confirm that the Fiesta Ecoboost is great. 40+ mpg on the highway. I could get better, but turbo = foot to the floor on the on-ramps.

Even beating it like a rented mule it gets 36+ mpg.
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Old 06-02-2015, 06:55 PM   #22409
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Lol'd hard.

MX-5 Miata Forum - View Single Post - Help with FCM Flat Ride (550/425)

Even better when it was followed up with this:

MX-5 Miata Forum - View Single Post - Help with FCM Flat Ride (550/425)
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Old 06-02-2015, 07:11 PM   #22410
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But math damn you! lol

I like my NB FCMs, they are great shocks for what they are. I've ridden in several Xida equipped cars and driven I think at least one, and I have a serious lust. Xidas are on my shopping list, but probably not going to happen this year.
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Old 06-03-2015, 01:52 AM   #22411
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Originally Posted by y8s View Post
gasoline engines are more efficient at larger throttle openings.
Yes but are they running it very lean even at wot?
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Old 06-03-2015, 01:58 AM   #22412
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
I don't debate the fact that, like every other Toyota produced since the end of WWII, the Prius incorporates a lot of innovative technological concepts.


But I'm also not going to debate the merits of the drivetrain separately from those of the overall car. That would be like arguing that the NA is a shitbox because it shares an engine with the Mercury Tracer.


The first-gen Insight was a marvel of lightness and robust technology. 16 years later, it's still the most fuel-efficient four-wheeled non-plugin vehicle ever sold in the US. The fact that there are loads of them for sale on Autotrader with 150-200,000 miles or more is a testament to the enduring value of a simple design, using a conventional synchromesh gearbox and friction clutch, along with an easily rebuilable battery pack. The entire body and chassis seem to have been made from an unknown material which fell to the earth from space, since the car weighs less than a stripped NA, yet contains a number of bourgeois luxury features such as air-conditioning and side windows that move with just the touch of a button.


The current-gen Insights and Civics are indistinguishable from the current-gen Prius. Fat, bloated, 4-door sedans built from ordinary materials with uninspired styling and no real sense of purpose. They are commodity cars. Nothing wrong with that, per se, I just find it impossible to get excited about them any more than I would be about a new washing machine or Corolla.
Excited? hahaha who gets excited about a friggen hybrid?
I mean even the insight isn't something a sane person would buy as a "toy".
It's a lighter, older, uglier, mini-fridge. The thing that makes the prii appealing is that they fit more crap in em than a subaru wagon, WHILE getting 50mpg, WHILE having every gizmo under the sun stuffed into em, AND still chug to 200k with no problems.
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Old 06-03-2015, 02:02 AM   #22413
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enginerd View Post
And that's how the most annoying drivers in the world are born.

Pulse and Glide strategy = Enter fast lane, speed up to 70, then slow down to 55, repeat.
Uphill strategy = Accelerate to 70 in the fast lane, slow down to 45 going up the hill, then coast back up to 70 going downhill.
Recharge strategy = Slow down for stop light 1/2 block before stop light, allowing cars from all side lanes to pass in front of you while blocking everyone behind you.
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Old 06-03-2015, 02:41 AM   #22414
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Quote:
Originally Posted by triple88a View Post
Yes but are they running it very lean even at wot?
See, now I'm wondering about a "cruising [not that cruising] gear" that would put the engine at very low revs but require the throttle to be mostly open just to maintain speed at, say, 65-70 mph.

Full throttle would have just enough oomph to very gently accelerate but nothing more. But basically the ratio would be calculated so that however much HP it required to keep the car at 70 mph, the ratio would put you just barely above that in the powerband.

I know that it's commonplace to have a much higher top gear for highway driving, but I'm talking something slightly more extreme.
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Old 06-03-2015, 09:14 AM   #22415
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Quote:
Originally Posted by triple88a View Post
Yes but are they running it very lean even at wot?
I still have a bluetooth OBD2 module, I've just been lazy and haven't found anything better than torque to take datalogs from (1hz isn't going to do it).

But IIRC it doesn't EVER go richer than 13, and is at stoich at less than 10psi.
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Old 06-03-2015, 09:50 AM   #22416
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Wait a minute, I don't understand this "pulse and glide".
Wouldn't the engine braking scrub off speed? Why would you want to brake / slow the car then speed it back up again.
Plus you're running at a better fuel ratio cruising than at half or whatever throttle to get back up to speed. Plus lets not forget about the timing when cruising.

Sounds like a dumb theory, I need to see some data.
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Old 06-03-2015, 10:19 AM   #22417
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I can tell you from exp that what he says actually works. Not a theory. I've done it.

I dunno the explicit details/ins-outs but I think this is how it works:

when you pulse you're using lots of battery juice, and not as much gas as you would if you were to slowly ramp up accelaration because then it'd use the engine for a longer period of time. when you glide you coast while the battery regens, it doesnt kill speed much cause toyota is smart and actually put a range in there where it will regenerate without decelarating much if at all.

you're essentially recovering as much energy as possible, then re-using as much of that energy as possible to conserve other energy.'

......or something
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Old 06-03-2015, 10:21 AM   #22418
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Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
Excited? hahaha who gets excited about a friggen hybrid?
People who are impressed by unusual feats of engineering which result in an especially lightweight, high-performance car which stands out above all competitors.

So, basically, the same people who get excited about things like Exiges and turbocharged Miatas.






Quote:
Originally Posted by mgeoffriau View Post
See, now I'm wondering about a "cruising [not that cruising] gear" that would put the engine at very low revs but require the throttle to be mostly open just to maintain speed at, say, 65-70 mph.

Full throttle would have just enough oomph to very gently accelerate but nothing more. But basically the ratio would be calculated so that however much HP it required to keep the car at 70 mph, the ratio would put you just barely above that in the powerband.

I know that it's commonplace to have a much higher top gear for highway driving, but I'm talking something slightly more extreme.
Basically the thing I was pondering about back in post # 22405 of this thread.

The simple answer is because it would be utterly horrible to drive- the same reason that not a lot of people purchased Citroen 2CVs here in the US.

But outfit it with an "instant-on" turbo, and configure the DBW throttle such that there's an immense deadband in the middle of it, with the Magic Valve™ opening to spin up the compressor only in the last 20% or so of throttle travel, and suddenly you've got a workable vehicle.

I mean, really- how much do small journal-bearing turbos actually cost at OEM-quantity?







Quote:
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Wait a minute, I don't understand this "pulse and glide".
Wouldn't the engine braking scrub off speed?
Not if the gas engine was decoupled from the wheels during this period of operation.
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Old 06-03-2015, 10:53 AM   #22419
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
Basically the thing I was pondering about back in post # 22405 of this thread.

The simple answer is because it would be utterly horrible to drive- the same reason that not a lot of people purchased Citroen 2CVs here in the US.

But outfit it with an "instant-on" turbo, and configure the DBW throttle such that there's an immense deadband in the middle of it, with the Magic Valve™ opening to spin up the compressor only in the last 20% or so of throttle travel, and suddenly you've got a workable vehicle.

I mean, really- how much do small journal-bearing turbos actually cost at OEM-quantity?
Or what if this ultra-high gear was only available with cruise control enabled? When you set your cruise speed, the transmission automatically shifts into the cruise gear (if appropriate) and then stays there. If you do anything that would otherwise disengage the cruise control (brake input, throttle input, or manually turning it off), the transmission automatically downshifts to the next highest gear.

So, the sluggish throttle response would never be experienced by the driver, since the cruise gear would only be used when you are using cruise control.
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Old 06-03-2015, 11:00 AM   #22420
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Originally Posted by mgeoffriau View Post
Or what if this ultra-high gear was only available with cruise control enabled?
Or what if it merely senses throttle position, remembering that with DBW, you can do a lot of electronic trickery.

Not everyone uses cruise control.
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