How (and why) to Ramble On your domestic shorthair - Page 1189 - Miata Turbo Forum -Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


Insert BS here A place to discuss anything you want

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 11-09-2015, 01:24 PM   #23761
Senior Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,252
Total Cats: 103
Default

Will the technology in the car be smart enough to distinguish a group of children over a couple of deer, a few good sized tumbleweeds, some cardboard boxes blowing around, a tree branch that has just fallen from above, or ... ?

I'd hate for my car to impale itself into an oncoming semi for the sake of Bambi and her mother.
good2go is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2015, 01:28 PM   #23762
Boost Pope
iTrader: (8)
 
Joe Perez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 24,662
Total Cats: 1,570
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by good2go View Post
Will the technology in the car be smart enough to distinguish a group of children over a couple of deer, a few good sized tumbleweeds, some cardboard boxes blowing around, a tree branch that has just fallen from above, or ...
These are all excellent questions, and they will, of course, need to be resolved.

At present, Google Car is capable of uniquely recognizing a bicyclist, and further capable of understanding whether the cyclist is fully stopped at rest, or about to take off. This has caused some software confusion when hipsters on fixies do track-stands at an intersection. (eg: the car can't yet understand that just because his feet are on the pedals doesn't mean he's about to launch.)

One presupposes that future generations will be capable of reading the RFID transponder tags which the World Health Organization has been secretly implanting into the necks of all children born since 1996.
Joe Perez is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2015, 01:34 PM   #23763
Crumple Zone Tester
iTrader: (6)
 
mgeoffriau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Jackson, MS
Posts: 7,481
Total Cats: 373
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by good2go View Post



mgeoffriau is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2015, 02:24 PM   #23764
Senior Member
iTrader: (6)
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,344
Total Cats: 52
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
Engineers, as a general rule, are held to owe a duty to the public to protect their safety, or at least avoid causing them harm.
Generally true except where negligence is the cause. This opens up new challenges to both the legal and moral questions and exactly what is 'negligence'.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
As yet, I'm not aware of any legal arguments which have specifically addressed this form of negligence,
Warning... extremely dry but relevant reading.

http://www.econ.brown.edu/fac/allan_...%20Injurer.pdf
bahurd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2015, 03:13 PM   #23765
Boost Pope
iTrader: (8)
 
Joe Perez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 24,662
Total Cats: 1,570
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bahurd View Post
Generally true except where negligence is the cause. This opens up new challenges to both the legal and moral questions and exactly what is 'negligence'.
Negligence in this context would imply things like "designer failed to account for relative harms to pedestrian vs. occupant" or "vehicle was unable to properly identify a group of small children hunched over chasing after a ball, and mistook them for large dogs." The implications here being that:
  • A person tasked with designing such a system should reasonably be aware that a pedestrian in the street is likely to suffer more harm from being hit by a car than the occupant of the car is likely to suffer from colliding with a stationary object, and
  • Less value should be placed on the life of a dog than on the life of a human (I'm sure Braineack will be along shortly to disagree with that), and, in some cases, than on the value of certain property.

What I'm wondering about isn't so much negligence per se. I'm talking about the uncomfortable but inevitable fact that in the process of designing software to drive a car, one must inherently imbue that software with certain preconceptions regarding whether one person's life is more valuable than another, and whether it owes a greater burden of care to the human who bought it than the humans around him.





Quote:
Originally Posted by bahurd View Post
Warning... extremely dry but relevant reading.

http://www.econ.brown.edu/fac/allan_...%20Injurer.pdf
It is dry, but also quite interesting. I haven't finished yet, but I like where it's going. Keep expecting to come upon the phrase "Tragedy of the commons."
Joe Perez is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2015, 04:57 PM   #23766
Moderator
iTrader: (9)
 
sixshooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 13,396
Total Cats: 1,016
Default

The only winning move is not to play with automated cars.
sixshooter is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2015, 06:20 PM   #23767
Senior Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,252
Total Cats: 103
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sixshooter View Post
The only winning move is not to play with automated cars.
My fear is that, in the not too distant future, they will become so ubiquitous that, in contrast, they make the individual that still chooses to drive manually appear to be the reckless and negligent one, seeing as how us humans are all so inherently flawed and prone to making human errors and all. It seems like it will inevitably be another technological advance shoved down our throats whether we like it or not. And yes, as I type this, it isn't lost on me that I do like having my seat belts, ABS, airbags, and TC in my 300+ hp sport sedan. I just mourn the prospect of the loss of the actual act of driving.
good2go is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2015, 06:38 PM   #23768
Boost Pope
iTrader: (8)
 
Joe Perez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 24,662
Total Cats: 1,570
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by good2go View Post
My fear is that, in the not too distant future, they will become so ubiquitous that, in contrast, they make the individual that still chooses to drive manually appear to be the reckless and negligent one, seeing as how us humans are all so inherently flawed and prone to making human errors and all.
This exact comment was made by one of the characters in one of the many movies about the not-too-distant-future. (Can't recall which one.)
Joe Perez is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2015, 09:11 PM   #23769
Senior Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,252
Total Cats: 103
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
This exact comment was made by one of the characters in one of the many movies about the not-too-distant-future. (Can't recall which one.)
Well, if it was exact, it is just coincidence or a shared opinion, as I squeezed that one out, natural like.
good2go is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2015, 09:22 PM   #23770
Boost Pope
iTrader: (8)
 
Joe Perez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 24,662
Total Cats: 1,570
Default

Found it. It's from "I, Robot." During one of the extended product-placement scenes, Will Smith, while cruising through a tunnel, is attached by a bunch of robots. He takes manual control of his car, smashes up a bunch of stuff, and is later chewed out by his CO back at the department.

"What is the matter with you? Traffic Ops tells me you're driving your car manually. You ran two trucks off the road!"


In the same film, he's carrying some chica on the back of his old motorcycle. "Please tell me this doesn't run on gas! Gas explodes, you know?"


Ironically, said film opens with Asimov's Three Laws:





Attached Thumbnails
How (and why) to Ramble On your domestic shorthair-14176242411961_700.png   How (and why) to Ramble On your domestic shorthair-tumblr_mj9wfx1wmf1rhq23ro2_500.gif   How (and why) to Ramble On your domestic shorthair-tumblr_mj9wfx1wmf1rhq23ro3_500.gif   How (and why) to Ramble On your domestic shorthair-tumblr_mj9wfx1wmf1rhq23ro4_500.gif  
Joe Perez is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2015, 09:40 AM   #23771
Elite Member
iTrader: (5)
 
Erat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Detroit
Posts: 3,881
Total Cats: 219
Default

Speaking on autonomous cars.

Unless they know how to drive in pouring rain, or 8 inches of snow by themselves, they will always still have the manual feature.
I can think of many scenarios in which the car will NEED to cease self control(including the above hypothetical scenarios mentioned). It has to in order to keep everyone safe and alive, itself included.

Even if the infrastructure were to support automated cars (see guidance systems built into the roads and communicating vehicles), what happens when there is a failure? 9 times out of 10 the failsafe is human interaction.

I think the real question is, can we ever have safe reliable transportation that is completely hands free with the current infrastructure, technology, and system?
Erat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2015, 09:55 AM   #23772
Boost Pope
iTrader: (8)
 
Joe Perez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 24,662
Total Cats: 1,570
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Erat View Post
I think the real question is, can we ever have safe reliable transportation that is completely hands free with the current infrastructure, technology, and system?
Attached Thumbnails
How (and why) to Ramble On your domestic shorthair-73601683.jpg  
Joe Perez is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2015, 10:23 AM   #23773
Elite Member
iTrader: (5)
 
Erat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Detroit
Posts: 3,881
Total Cats: 219
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
[IMG]http://www.miataturbo.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=154467&dateline=144716 3749[IMG]
This violates 1 of the 3 stipulations. It's a different system.

We need to make it work here, and adhere to all 3 stipulations:




We need an infrastructure change in order for this to happen, I can't see any other way.
Attached Thumbnails
How (and why) to Ramble On your domestic shorthair-gty_snow_highway_nt_140102_16x9_608.jpg  
Erat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2015, 10:34 AM   #23774
Elite Member
iTrader: (2)
 
fooger03's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 4,044
Total Cats: 178
Default

It won't happen on current infrastructure. Nothing short of a road system that resembles a massive luggage or mail sorting system will work perfectly, and even then, you'll still lose your luggage on the way to your honeymoon, and the electric bill will always go to the wrong address.
fooger03 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2015, 10:52 AM   #23775
Senior Member
iTrader: (6)
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,344
Total Cats: 52
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Erat View Post
This violates 1 of the 3 stipulations. It's a different system.

We need to make it work here, and adhere to all 3 stipulations:




We need an infrastructure change in order for this to happen, I can't see any other way.
Hey, I lived in Detroit for 5 years. First snow day of the year I'd put more trust in the automated system than the other drivers....

But I see your point.
bahurd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2015, 11:51 AM   #23776
Boost Czar

iTrader: (60)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 70,134
Total Cats: 1,401
Default

The guy that was able to see Star Wars before the release, died. I guess Disney didn't improve it much...
Braineack is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2015, 11:54 AM   #23777
Moderator
iTrader: (9)
 
sixshooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 13,396
Total Cats: 1,016
Default

Didn't Demolition Man with Stallone have something about autonomous driving cars being a hindrance?
sixshooter is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2015, 12:11 PM   #23778
Elite Member
iTrader: (5)
 
Erat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Detroit
Posts: 3,881
Total Cats: 219
Default

I don't remember it ending well for Will Smith in iRobot.
Erat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2015, 01:44 PM   #23779
Boost Czar

iTrader: (60)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 70,134
Total Cats: 1,401
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sixshooter View Post
Didn't Demolition Man with Stallone have something about autonomous driving cars being a hindrance?
Taco Bell.

3 shells.
Braineack is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2015, 01:46 PM   #23780
Hug Life
iTrader: (3)
 
Monk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Huntington, Indiana
Posts: 2,398
Total Cats: 356
Default

Maybe with the invention of car filling foam, the algorithm will swing in the direction of pedestrian avoidance.
Monk is online now   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Uconn Car Show 240_to_miata Local Meets, Events and Tech Days 1 01-23-2016 10:17 PM
Uconn Car Show Sat, April 9th 240_to_miata Local Meets, Events and Tech Days 7 04-11-2011 11:00 AM
Uconn Car Club Spring 2010 Show 240_to_miata Local Meets, Events and Tech Days 92 04-12-2010 06:20 PM
anual uconn car show/meet 240_to_miata Local Meets, Events and Tech Days 0 02-19-2008 10:03 PM


Tags
brain <3 me, brainy <3s hollywood, cancerous testicles, cuban caveman, furry barnacle, get fragged faeflora, joe p for prez, lyrical joe perez, not hit block, peter falk

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:59 PM.