I'd like to know what FM thinks they do better than BEGi
09-26-2007, 10:07 PM
#41
Boost Pope
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Talk to Braineack. He has built several PNP harnesses to run a traditional MS in piggyback on the NA, I'd say he probably has the best knowledge base for what it would take on an NB.
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09-26-2007, 11:13 PM
#42
Hey now, I worked on the Formula SAE team back at UF. In our shop, it was the folks on the HEVy project (Hybrid Electric) who couldn't think without money. Or more precisely, without being sponsored by Chrysler. 
In fairness tho, they were building hybrid cars back in '95, long before it was cool.
In fairness tho, they were building hybrid cars back in '95, long before it was cool.
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09-26-2007, 11:59 PM
#44
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I could have used BEGI while I was in school down in Texas (Rice)...our SAE put a supercharger (along with a lot else) on an old Alfa Romeo and raced in OneLap of America. Actually, the team is still working on the car and taking it each year. It'd be nice to have (semi)local help from BEGi!
Good luck finding the photo of me. There is some around, but not the kind phillip was looking for.
I respect Joe's opinion, but I felt it necessary to point out what I did. People expect us to be stocking the same stuff as FM, and do not realize the reasons why we are now catching up.
I think the main advantage of the pierburg is it quieter than the walbro. It is also a better quality part. Corky used to say that he would not wish a walbro pump on his mother in law. But having used one or two in the last couple of years, he is keeping an open mind. And we now sell them. Go figure.
As for timing management, I completely agree. It would be nice to find a cheaper solution that is all in one. The Xede, but cheaper. Corky has toyed with the idea of trying the new AEM unit. But by the time you add all the stuff to make it easier to use, it costs the same as the Xede. Some Friends of ours are working on a new unit and have been for some time. So maybe there will be good news soon. But I gotta say Dick Bipes (and someone else behind the scenes) is 'da man, and now we only need the bipes unit for the NB models. The MSD is very limited in it's availability, and the J&S is too expensive. The new wheel for the NB's is just a bad idea all around.
Why no O2 clamp?The difference is an electronic control versus mechanical. The O2 clamp is used to send the ECU into open loop mode. It is not that we think they are horrible, just that it is very seldom used. We have some O2 clamps, sometimes...The BEGi fuel system works off of a boost signal and is more of a mechanical control. So it does not need to send the car open loop. Granted, there are rare occasions when it is needed. From my limited knowledge on Voodoo and PC pro devices, all other electronic devices do need to find a way to put the car in open loop in order to control the fuel. But don't quote me on that......
Stephanie
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09-27-2007, 12:29 AM
#45
Tour de Franzia
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Rice has not called us to my knowledge. In all fairness, they are 3 hours away. Corky know all the guys at A&M and UT.We usually help out with all their projects every year.
Good luck finding the photo of me. There is some around, but not the kind phillip was looking for.
I respect Joe's opinion, but I felt it necessary to point out what I did. People expect us to be stocking the same stuff as FM, and do not realize the reasons why we are now catching up.
I think the main advantage of the pierburg is it quieter than the walbro. It is also a better quality part. Corky used to say that he would not wish a walbro pump on his mother in law. But having used one or two in the last couple of years, he is keeping an open mind. And we now sell them. Go figure.
As for timing management, I completely agree. It would be nice to find a cheaper solution that is all in one. The Xede, but cheaper. Corky has toyed with the idea of trying the new AEM unit. But by the time you add all the stuff to make it easier to use, it costs the same as the Xede. Some Friends of ours are working on a new unit and have been for some time. So maybe there will be good news soon. But I gotta say Dick Bipes (and someone else behind the scenes) is 'da man, and now we only need the bipes unit for the NB models. The MSD is very limited in it's availability, and the J&S is too expensive. The new wheel for the NB's is just a bad idea all around.
Why no O2 clamp?The difference is an electronic control versus mechanical. The O2 clamp is used to send the ECU into open loop mode. It is not that we think they are horrible, just that it is very seldom used. We have some O2 clamps, sometimes...The BEGi fuel system works off of a boost signal and is more of a mechanical control. So it does not need to send the car open loop. Granted, there are rare occasions when it is needed. From my limited knowledge on Voodoo and PC pro devices, all other electronic devices do need to find a way to put the car in open loop in order to control the fuel. But don't quote me on that......
Stephanie
Good luck finding the photo of me. There is some around, but not the kind phillip was looking for.
I respect Joe's opinion, but I felt it necessary to point out what I did. People expect us to be stocking the same stuff as FM, and do not realize the reasons why we are now catching up.
I think the main advantage of the pierburg is it quieter than the walbro. It is also a better quality part. Corky used to say that he would not wish a walbro pump on his mother in law. But having used one or two in the last couple of years, he is keeping an open mind. And we now sell them. Go figure.
As for timing management, I completely agree. It would be nice to find a cheaper solution that is all in one. The Xede, but cheaper. Corky has toyed with the idea of trying the new AEM unit. But by the time you add all the stuff to make it easier to use, it costs the same as the Xede. Some Friends of ours are working on a new unit and have been for some time. So maybe there will be good news soon. But I gotta say Dick Bipes (and someone else behind the scenes) is 'da man, and now we only need the bipes unit for the NB models. The MSD is very limited in it's availability, and the J&S is too expensive. The new wheel for the NB's is just a bad idea all around.
Why no O2 clamp?The difference is an electronic control versus mechanical. The O2 clamp is used to send the ECU into open loop mode. It is not that we think they are horrible, just that it is very seldom used. We have some O2 clamps, sometimes...The BEGi fuel system works off of a boost signal and is more of a mechanical control. So it does not need to send the car open loop. Granted, there are rare occasions when it is needed. From my limited knowledge on Voodoo and PC pro devices, all other electronic devices do need to find a way to put the car in open loop in order to control the fuel. But don't quote me on that......
Stephanie
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09-27-2007, 12:35 AM
#46
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Originally Posted by Stephanie
I think the main advantage of the pierburg is it quieter than the walbro.
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09-27-2007, 08:18 AM
#47
Boost Czar
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IIRC, there's nothing speical about it. just a third 16 pin connector between the standard 22 and 26 pin. All three and the 64 pin male are in stock at onlinecomponents.com
just need (16) .070" contacts and (48) .040" contacts, about 40' of wire, some 1/8" heatshrink, a few hours, and you're in business.
I had mine wrapped with the supplied sleeve, then wrapped in two layers of dynomat, and the entire area around the filter/pump was dyno matted. I could hear it over my exhaust/engine/radio/thinking. Every walbro 190 ive installed, i can't hear at all.
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09-27-2007, 08:23 PM
#50
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Given a stock 1.8 block, running a 7K/rpm peak, VE of 95%, Intake temp of 110-degrees, BSFC of 0.55 and an A/F of 12.75 you will need 11-psi to see 200-rwhp.
Reduction of pressure by 0.5-psi will result in 196-rwhp.
Reduction of temp by 20 degrees will result in 207-rwhp.
Both a reduction in pressure and temp will result in 203-rwhp. -- A 1.5% net gain. Which then brings in the question: $$$ for value. (Remembering that value is subjective.)
(..at least according to the formula. YMMV)
If you've looked at BEGi's site and seen what Corky and I are up to, you'll see I am running some FM equipment on my car. However, when I called Corky to talk about some of the racing events I wanted to get involved in, his response wasn't, "Product X, sitting on our shelf and ready to go, will meet your needs." Instead it was, "Sounds like an interesting problem. Come on down and let's see what we can cook up..."
- L
Last edited by l_bader; 09-28-2007 at 07:01 AM.
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12-10-2007, 10:54 PM
#55
The business models behind Begi and FM are different, for one they target two different demographics. Bell targets a Do it your selfer up to a person who thinks they have what it takes to tinker a bit. FM targets people who dont know jack **** about what they are doing and are experts at assembling IKEA furniture and dont mind paying extra for piece of mind.
Simple.
As for my issues, I think Begi should revise their site. Seriously it just looks like a fifth grader with no experience in HTML made it. A website is an important representation of your business, its your store front, you dont want it to look like crap no one will walk into your store.
In fact, I know an expert programmer that could make you(stephanie, begi) an awesome website that will truly portray what Begi is. He lives in Texas and can no doubt come to you in person for a consultation, best of all he is a one man show so you get support and personal service. I went to school with this guy, and I would take a bullet for him. Best of all, he isnt expensive and im sure will talk to you for nothing.
Simple.
As for my issues, I think Begi should revise their site. Seriously it just looks like a fifth grader with no experience in HTML made it. A website is an important representation of your business, its your store front, you dont want it to look like crap no one will walk into your store.
In fact, I know an expert programmer that could make you(stephanie, begi) an awesome website that will truly portray what Begi is. He lives in Texas and can no doubt come to you in person for a consultation, best of all he is a one man show so you get support and personal service. I went to school with this guy, and I would take a bullet for him. Best of all, he isnt expensive and im sure will talk to you for nothing.
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12-10-2007, 11:36 PM
#56
Theirs is a website that's made strides lately, regardless of where it is now. Man, I'm coming into this thread late, but will say that (limited interaction - though always good - with BEGi aside) I found Joe's post pretty dead on. FM certainly used to give me a lot of help, but recently I found they seemed to disagree with me and then later with reality, looking a bit more to sell stuff than I remember them being.
I'm not sure about the motivation for what kits are supplied - there's a wide wide world behind closed doors of incentives and costs and support and personal preferences which end customers see little of (a few years in a sales organization showed me that). Miatas are not mustangs, the market for moding them isn't what it could be.
I do think a company making a solid effort to provide a MS at cost with their own firmware (hard intellectual property to protect - the trouble with selling to "I can do it myself"ers) would really be selling something useful. It wouldn't behoov a company such as BEGi to develope the ultimate pnp MS only to have folks buy it from DIY or ebay after all the development overhead. Everyone's gotta make a buck - keeping the doors open is not as simple as pulling in 10% on a set of ignition cables.
FM, to me, is indeed a reseller. Think of them more as... a review site. They buy products, review them, and then sell them, their increased prices reflect the cost of this work (on their end there's also warehousing, etc - but to you it's just what you pay to get something that "just works"). The only time that falls apart is when it doesn't "just work" - and then I get a little annoyed at the "you're not typical enough to worry about" attitude over there.
I don't know if FM turned a corner or if I did. I'm certainly in a different market. But I don't like the line I get from the people I get on the phone or by email - they are different people than before, but it seems questions go unanswered and they spew cannon. Lastly, I had someone tell me my overboost issue could be solved with a more expensive computer. Totally illogical, they might as well have said "send me two thousand dollars for support".
Begi's stuff looks good to me, if my stuff didn't already work I'd be giving it a very serious look. They should make little voodoo dolls of my car and stick pins in it. :-)
I'm not sure about the motivation for what kits are supplied - there's a wide wide world behind closed doors of incentives and costs and support and personal preferences which end customers see little of (a few years in a sales organization showed me that). Miatas are not mustangs, the market for moding them isn't what it could be.
I do think a company making a solid effort to provide a MS at cost with their own firmware (hard intellectual property to protect - the trouble with selling to "I can do it myself"ers) would really be selling something useful. It wouldn't behoov a company such as BEGi to develope the ultimate pnp MS only to have folks buy it from DIY or ebay after all the development overhead. Everyone's gotta make a buck - keeping the doors open is not as simple as pulling in 10% on a set of ignition cables.
FM, to me, is indeed a reseller. Think of them more as... a review site. They buy products, review them, and then sell them, their increased prices reflect the cost of this work (on their end there's also warehousing, etc - but to you it's just what you pay to get something that "just works"). The only time that falls apart is when it doesn't "just work" - and then I get a little annoyed at the "you're not typical enough to worry about" attitude over there.
I don't know if FM turned a corner or if I did. I'm certainly in a different market. But I don't like the line I get from the people I get on the phone or by email - they are different people than before, but it seems questions go unanswered and they spew cannon. Lastly, I had someone tell me my overboost issue could be solved with a more expensive computer. Totally illogical, they might as well have said "send me two thousand dollars for support".
Begi's stuff looks good to me, if my stuff didn't already work I'd be giving it a very serious look. They should make little voodoo dolls of my car and stick pins in it. :-)
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12-10-2007, 11:54 PM
#57
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^Abe,it seems like FM got too big,and now it's starting to bite them in the ***.It seems like it's pretty routine now that FM does not want to solve existing problems with the products that customers have,but choose to jump in with both feet and plain out try and sell them something instead of helping them fix it.
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12-11-2007, 10:41 AM
#58
Former Vendor
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Location: Bell Tuning & Performance
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The business models behind Begi and FM are different, for one they target two different demographics. Bell targets a Do it your selfer up to a person who thinks they have what it takes to tinker a bit. FM targets people who dont know jack **** about what they are doing and are experts at assembling IKEA furniture and dont mind paying extra for piece of mind.
As for my issues, I think Begi should revise their site. Seriously it just looks like a fifth grader with no experience in HTML made it. A website is an important representation of your business, its your store front, you dont want it to look like crap no one will walk into your store.
That said, a new web store is in the works and I hope it will be unveiled around the first of the year. It should look somewhat the same, but with a few improvements in layout and better organization. We have an awesome guy who is working on it for us.
Stephanie
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12-11-2007, 11:19 AM
#59
When I first got my Miata, I never heard of Begi. The first time I looked at your site, I thought "this company is offering products out of my knowledge range that require more effort to install and are for experts". I was dead set on an FM kit after that, but later through education I learned otherwise. Most people looking for tuner companies dont do in depth research, they look at a site, read the stuff written on it and buy based on first impression. Your site is for a different crowd, not the crowd that brings in hordes of cash sadly when compared to the DIY'Selfer and garage tinkerer.
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