Kia Rio > All?
03-28-2013, 12:31 PM
#21
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What, specifically, makes the Versa and Yaris substantially more horrible than the Rio? The reviews which I've read criticize them for being under-powered and sort of bland-feeling, but this is a character trait which I associate with all cheap hatchbacks in general.
The 80s-vintage Rabbit Diesel was by no means a fast and nimble car, but if you look up the word "reliable" in most dictionaries, they have a picture of it below the definition.
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03-28-2013, 12:32 PM
#22
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I had a Mazda2 as a rental car about a year ago in Phoenix. The automatic transmission was underwhelming (no surprise there) but in every other way, I was really quite amazed by how horrible the car wasn't. I initially cringed when they gave it to me, but it turned out to be a very comfortable place to sit, handled reasonably well, and seemed very well put together.
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03-28-2013, 01:28 PM
#23
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I think the Fiesta is the best car in the class, with the Fit a close second. Those roles can change depending on your needs. The Fiesta gets better mileage and has more power but the Fit has more space and better resale value.
KIA still not up to par IMO, and I almost bought a Soul last time I was car shopping (bought a used Jet ta TDI instead and don't regret it for a second).
KIA still not up to par IMO, and I almost bought a Soul last time I was car shopping (bought a used Jet ta TDI instead and don't regret it for a second).
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03-28-2013, 01:43 PM
#24
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Jeremy Clarkson would seem to agree with you, and that's saying a lot.
Pretty much.
Right now, Kia makes aspirational cars for poor people. You can walk in with your one-step-above-minimum-wage job, sign a few papers, and drive away in a car loaded with the same gizmos and gadgets that your college-educated friends have in their Hondae and Lexii, feeling pretty good about yourself.
The difference is that a few years down the road, everything about the Hondae and Lexii will still be working properly, not rattling, etc. Your hamstermobile, by comparison, will have gone the way of the knockoff handbag, looking a bit threadbare and starting to tear at the seams.
There's a very good reason that some cars have a higher average resale value than others.
KIA still not up to par IMO, and I almost bought a Soul last time I was car shopping (bought a used Jet ta TDI instead and don't regret it for a second).
Right now, Kia makes aspirational cars for poor people. You can walk in with your one-step-above-minimum-wage job, sign a few papers, and drive away in a car loaded with the same gizmos and gadgets that your college-educated friends have in their Hondae and Lexii, feeling pretty good about yourself.
The difference is that a few years down the road, everything about the Hondae and Lexii will still be working properly, not rattling, etc. Your hamstermobile, by comparison, will have gone the way of the knockoff handbag, looking a bit threadbare and starting to tear at the seams.
There's a very good reason that some cars have a higher average resale value than others.
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03-28-2013, 01:49 PM
#25
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I don't know that the difference is as great as you state, but I do believe that there is a difference for sure.
Thing about price... The new Rio starts at just a hair under $14k. So does the Fiesta (sedan... Hatch is like $800 more). Fit starts at, what, $14.5k? Mazda2 at $14k ? The KIA isn't saving you any money!
Thing about price... The new Rio starts at just a hair under $14k. So does the Fiesta (sedan... Hatch is like $800 more). Fit starts at, what, $14.5k? Mazda2 at $14k ? The KIA isn't saving you any money!
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03-28-2013, 02:18 PM
#27
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My beef with the mazda2 is that you can get more space with better fuel economy and more power with the Fiesta, or more space with about the same power and economy with the Fit. Basically I'm disappointed with the size, power and fuel economy of the mazda2.
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03-28-2013, 02:26 PM
#28
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Think of it this way: If you live outside the rust-belt, the secondary market is saturated with 20 year old Hondoyotazdas that are running fine, passed their last emission inspection with no problem, and still feel like they're not falling apart.
How many Daewoos of the same vintage do you see for sale?
Here's what it boils down to:
If you watch enough car commercials on TV, you see a lot of automakers touting that such-and-such model won an award from J.D. Power for best something-or-other. It's like playing little league baseball in third grade, where everybody gets a ribbon just for showing up.
But here's the thing. Inasmuch as these awards are a valuable measure of anything at all, it's interesting to note which automakers claim which awards.
The Koreans, for the most part love to talk about their Initial Quality ranking, meaning that you got a lot of stuff for your money and it lasted at least 12 months without breaking. (Literally, that's what the Initial Quality award measures.) They tend not so much to mention long-term dependability, resale value, etc.
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03-28-2013, 03:39 PM
#32
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Seeing those pictures brings to my mind a question:
Why do most automakers elect to locate the starting battery within the engine compartment, very near to many sources of heat? All else being equal, high ambient temperatures tend to increase the rate of degradation of a flooded battery.
Why do most automakers elect to locate the starting battery within the engine compartment, very near to many sources of heat? All else being equal, high ambient temperatures tend to increase the rate of degradation of a flooded battery.
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03-28-2013, 03:46 PM
#34
Seeing those pictures brings to my mind a question:
Why do most automakers elect to locate the starting battery within the engine compartment, very near to many sources of heat? All else being equal, high ambient temperatures tend to increase the rate of degradation of a flooded battery.
Why do most automakers elect to locate the starting battery within the engine compartment, very near to many sources of heat? All else being equal, high ambient temperatures tend to increase the rate of degradation of a flooded battery.
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03-28-2013, 04:48 PM
#38
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A friend of mine down in FL has some Kia sedan of relatively recent vintage (2008 maybe?) and while it has only slightly over 100,000 miles on it, it's more or less falling apart. The drivetrain is fine, but it's developed all sorts of little squeaks and rattles, the interior is coming to pieces, the A/C has crapped out twice, etc.
Kia is still an emerging company, regardless of what they'd like you to think. They are the automotive equivalent of the guy selling knockoff Louis Vuitton purses from a little kiosk on the street in Chinatown. Sure, they look a lot like the real thing, but they're poorly assembled from inferior materials.
Kia is still an emerging company, regardless of what they'd like you to think. They are the automotive equivalent of the guy selling knockoff Louis Vuitton purses from a little kiosk on the street in Chinatown. Sure, they look a lot like the real thing, but they're poorly assembled from inferior materials.
Right now, Kia makes aspirational cars for poor people. You can walk in with your one-step-above-minimum-wage job, sign a few papers, and drive away in a car loaded with the same gizmos and gadgets that your college-educated friends have in their Hondae and Lexii, feeling pretty good about yourself.
The difference is that a few years down the road, everything about the Hondae and Lexii will still be working properly, not rattling, etc. Your hamstermobile, by comparison, will have gone the way of the knockoff handbag, looking a bit threadbare and starting to tear at the seams.
There's a very good reason that some cars have a higher average resale value than others.
The difference is that a few years down the road, everything about the Hondae and Lexii will still be working properly, not rattling, etc. Your hamstermobile, by comparison, will have gone the way of the knockoff handbag, looking a bit threadbare and starting to tear at the seams.
There's a very good reason that some cars have a higher average resale value than others.
The Koreans, for the most part love to talk about their Initial Quality ranking, meaning that you got a lot of stuff for your money and it lasted at least 12 months without breaking. (Literally, that's what the Initial Quality award measures.) They tend not so much to mention long-term dependability, resale value, etc.
2010 2nd gen Optima
2011 3rd gen Optima
You are right to make the distinction between initial and long-term quality and reliability but I would point out that there has been a pretty big evolutionary jump in the last couple of years. Whether that holds up long term, no one can accurately say at the moment.
In other words, beware recency bias.
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03-28-2013, 05:01 PM
#40
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Now, to an extent I acknowledge that this is a variant on the 1960's era IBM argument. (Nobody ever got fired for buying IBM.) And we all know how that story ended. But given the choice between buying a car from a company with a history of producing reliable vehicles and one of which it can be said that "They've gotten a lot less bad over the past five years..."
Last edited by Joe Perez; 03-28-2013 at 05:17 PM. Reason: i no kan schpell
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