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Old 10-05-2012, 06:00 PM   #13781
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Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
Needs even more circuit boards stacked on top of one another (perhaps with one mounted upside-down, and another oriented vertically), rather than having the entire design placed onto a single board.
if you like, you can mount the low impedance injector drivers externally.
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Old 10-05-2012, 06:11 PM   #13782
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If the ECU works, wear it?
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Old 10-05-2012, 06:12 PM   #13783
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if you like, you can mount the low impedance injector drivers externally.
Brilliant!

In fact, when they start work on the MS4 CPU, it should require a rev 3.57 board with an MS3 CPU and an MS3X mounted in one case, and then a SECOND enclosure with the MS4 CPU and a few other boards in it as well.

Why bother optimizing the design when you can just keep piling additional hardware on top of what you already have?
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Old 10-05-2012, 06:47 PM   #13784
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Per Joe's monitor pics- They look amazingly different from my home laptop as opposed to my work monitor....now tha I am home.
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Old 10-05-2012, 07:28 PM   #13785
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If the ECU works, wear it?
To be clear, I wasn't criticizing your MS3. Just making an observation about the overall design of the MS3 package, and how they're still recycling the same old brain-dead 3.0/3.57 mainboard that wasn't even adequate for use on anything other than a throttle-body-injected engine with a distributor back when it was first created 8 years ago, rather than working to decrease the cost, complexity and size of the system by integrating all of the functionality onto a single PCB the way that every other ECU in the world is built.




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(sound of crickets chirping)
Cat got your tongue?

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Old 10-05-2012, 07:31 PM   #13786
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To be clear, I wasn't criticizing your MS3. Just making an observation about the overall design of the MS3 package, and how they're still recycling the same old brain-dead 3.0/3.57 mainboard that wasn't even adequate for use on anything other than a throttle-body-injected engine with a distributor back when it was first created 8 years ago, rather than working to decrease the cost, complexity and size of the system by integrating all of the functionality onto a single PCB the way that every other ECU in the world is built.
B&G is odd and wanted the backwards compatibility. would be stupid easy to make it all one board. :ratsnest:
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Old 10-05-2012, 07:33 PM   #13787
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Cat got your tongue?

We moved our DNS to a new server and someone before my time though it would be cool to run the citrix lisence stuff on that server. So we put the whole company in a head lock for 45 minutes. Then found out that all our systems related to EVS software fucked off on our SQL server when citrix went down. Took over an hour to roll back / fail over.

So how was your day?
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Old 10-05-2012, 08:08 PM   #13788
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B&G is odd and wanted the backwards compatibility. would be stupid easy to make it all one board. :ratsnest:
I understand the fundamental desire for backwards-compatability, but in what useful way did they actually achieve this?

If you want to upgrade from an MS1/2 to an MS3, the only part you get to re-use is the 3.0/3.57 board itself, which is the cheapest/simplest component in the whole system. And of that board, the only circuits still being used are the MAP sensor, the power regulator, the crank sensor and a couple of passive voltage-dividers for the temp sensor inputs. That's maybe $15-20 worth of hardware at actual cost.

You have to replace the case (because the stacked-board arrangement won't fit in the old one) and you have to totally re-do your wiring harness to adapt it to the MS3X, because not only is the pinout totally different, but fully-sequential injection and ignition isn't even remotely like batch-fire injection and wasted-spark ignition. Of course, they allowed us to continue using the wonderful DB-37 connector that never EVER develops intermittant connections because one of the two extremely delicate screws or nuts broke / fell out / got lost during one of the eleventy-seven times you had to disassemble the box for some stupid reason / didn't fit right in the first place because the thread pitch was different between the two.

Meanwhile, everyone ELSE has to pay more money when they want to build a new ECU, and also wind up having to deal with a bunch of bullshit complexity due to the fact that we're still using pad names that were obsolete three revisions ago, and, let's face it, that damn thing is a mechanical nightmare. You have to remove the daughterboard in order to adjust the potentiometers in the worthless piece-of-**** crank sensor input circuit, which means that you can't actually run the engine while you're making the adjustments because you've removed the part of the ECU that drives the injectors and ignition, unless you're super-careful and leave it attached and sort of draped-over the rest of the assembly, making sure you don't accidentally short anything and blow up the whole ECU in the process.


Backwards-compatability is total bullshit. It sounds cool, but it ALWAYS winds up compromising the design. Backwards-compatibility was responsible for bringing us such marvelously unsuccessful products as the Apple III, the Commodore 128, and the Atari 7800. It's why Intel machines of the 1990s struggled with such a retardedly complex memory architecture, why the NTSC television standard was known as "Never Twice the Same Color" among industry professionals, and why a "standard gauge" railroad is built to the incomprehensible track spacing of 4 feet 8½ inches.






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So how was your day?
Well, I ranted for a while to Braineack about how much I want Bruce Bowling and Al Grippo to die in a fire after having been mauled by an HIV positive bear and stung by box jellyfish over 90% of the surface area of their bodies, and I amused myself by creating a "name the interface" game out of some pictures I took last night, but mostly I sat in dimly lit room listening to relaxing music and observing the temporal location of individual bits of data on a bi-directional, multiplexed bus using a fancy Agilent scope with one hand while using a Makita cordless drill to spin a rotary encoder at a constant RPM with the other, and looking for one specific data pattern to come out.

Oh, and I also spent a miunte on Google Images looking for a picture to go with the phrase "Cat got your tongue." I can't even remember how we managed to live before Google Images.
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Old 10-05-2012, 09:08 PM   #13789
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Cat got your tongue?

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Old 10-06-2012, 02:36 AM   #13790
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This is how my day went down range.

The Random Pictures Thread. Only Rule: Post here more and entertain me.-183558_10151086588723715_1203665555_n.jpg
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Old 10-06-2012, 06:29 AM   #13791
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
Can you please start soldering the components so they sit flash on the board?
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Old 10-06-2012, 06:33 AM   #13792
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I understand the fundamental desire for backwards-compatability
For the love of G.O.D., please don't turn into techsalivager.
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Old 10-06-2012, 10:06 AM   #13793
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No thanks.... I'll stick to the ground.



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Old 10-06-2012, 10:37 AM   #13794
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no, he prefers some Nissan ECU in his miata, hacked up engine wiring, coupled with the same turbo I was using...

funny, he's making less power than me at 13psi with him at 22psi

coincidentally on the same injectors that have me at >90% DC...




tech at 22psi on a T3 60 trim:



brain at 13psi on a T3 Super 60 trim (1mm larger inducer):

It looks like the reason why his dyno chart sucks is because of massive boost control fail, not because of timing and fuel. At 5000RPM he is making a lot more power than you as he should be. Then boost control failure occurs.

I'm not arguing that MS is better, but I think you are mistaking if you think the chart looks like a sagging dick because of band aids. Unless... he goes hugely lean. Or. Unless, he has no timing control and shiz starts knocking like crazy and the stock ems pinches things off.
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Old 10-06-2012, 12:09 PM   #13795
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I'm not arguing that MS is better, but I think you are mistaking if you think the chart looks like a sagging dick because of band aids. Unless... he goes hugely lean. Or. Unless, he has no timing control and shiz starts knocking like crazy and the stock ems pinches things off.
would you run 22psi on 460cc rx7 injectors?
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Old 10-06-2012, 12:11 PM   #13796
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Can you please start soldering the components so they sit flash on the board?
I could try; the one pictured is probably the only one not flush.

why you gotta be such a hater?
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Old 10-06-2012, 12:22 PM   #13797
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For the love of G.O.D., please don't turn into techsalivager.
?
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Old 10-06-2012, 03:10 PM   #13798
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Old 10-06-2012, 03:20 PM   #13799
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?
Anti-MS.
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Old 10-06-2012, 03:29 PM   #13800
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You mean anti-brain? not Brain, but like brains; like anti-thought.
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